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[Fenrir]

We all know that food is incredibly easy to get. Plump helmets can be harvested three times a season, and since dwarves don't eat very often. Are there any real-world plants that can be grown in such a short amount of time? Perhaps this is left over from the 2D version where we had to irrigate our farms each year and risk flooding our fortress, and Toady never got around to rebalancing things.

EDIT:
Ooops, not month, season. Corrected.

[ February 27, 2008: Message edited by: Fenrir ]

[Hyperturtle]

well.. mushrooms do seem to pop up over night, but the fungus itself takes some time to grow into their media.  But after that, they grow and grow until their nutrients run out.  Mushrooms are the fruit of the fungus.  Which makes plump helmet spawn so interesting, as you'd think they'd need plump helmet spores... well i guess if you just take a bunch of the small mushrooms and scatter them you'd do the same thing.

Of course, there are seasonal mushrooms and the like, but I can imagine an underground mushroom not being particularly responsive to seasons.

[DJ]

Yeah, but mushrooms need a lot of nutrients because they don't synthesize any on their own. So maybe you should need something besides spawn to make mushrooms grow at all. I'm thinking logs and corpses. That way a siege could actually starve a fortress.

[Deathworks]

Hi!

Putting the biology discussion aside, like the OP, I noticed that 3d has become much easier as far as food is concerned thanks to daylight farming. Nowadays, when I start a fortress, I do not take any plump helmet spawn with me, instead gathering some plants at the location and then start farming them.

Provided I have enough barrels, food and drink production is no longer a major problem (safe for medical care water).

Deathworks

[Sowelu]

Nutrient depletion could certainly stand to be a bigger part of the game.  Plump helmets are easy to grow, but maybe they should deplete nutrients way out of scale with the sustenence they provide.

[Fenrir]

To make things a bit more difficult, I think underground farming should require irrigation no matter what the soil. Plants need water, but it doesn't rain underground, so you should have to flood your farm every now and then. Even above-ground farms should require irrigation in biomes with less rainfall.

[Kogan Loloklam]

I agree with this, Even though it increases the learning curve dramatically. But likewise, having dwarves able to irrigate with a bucket of water should be part of that too.

[Lord Dullard]

quote:Originally posted by Fenrir:
<STRONG>To make things a bit more difficult, I think underground farming should require irrigation no matter what the soil. Plants need water, but it doesn't rain underground, so you should have to flood your farm every now and then. Even above-ground farms should require irrigation in biomes with less rainfall.</STRONG>

Back after a long break, and with a shiny new Vista computer that (surprisingly) is running the game perfectly.  

To add to this sentiment, if constant irrigation was a factor for underground farming, we might actually have a reason to want to settle on maps with aquifers.. it would make perfect sense if the Z-level just above an aquifer was considered perpetually irrigated, thus making an aquifer more of a double-edged sword and less of a huge pain in the arse.

[Name Lips]

The game is becoming more of a simulation than a game (even though it's simulating a fantasy world instead of something resembling "reality"). That means it's practically a sandbox, and you have to fabricate your own challenges. So if you want food gathering to be a problem, start on a rocky map with no soil and no access to water.

[Ibu Muffintakers]

... but then it's impossible.  If it's possible at all, say on a map without soil but with water, then it's a relatively simple floodgate setup to irrigate the area, and when you've done it once, you're set for the lifetime of your fort.  Once the farms are running, their output is so high that one starting dwarf with points in brewing, cooking, and growing can support at least 50 dwarves.

[Lord Dullard]

quote:Originally posted by Name Lips:
<STRONG>The game is becoming more of a simulation than a game (even though it's simulating a fantasy world instead of something resembling "reality"). That means it's practically a sandbox, and you have to fabricate your own challenges. So if you want food gathering to be a problem, start on a rocky map with no soil and no access to water.</STRONG>

There have never been any clear-cut 'goals' in the game; the goals are what you want them to be, although the major 'story' arcs present within Fortress mode provide a default level of development to work towards. On that note, I am uncertain as to why you're suggesting that leaving fallible game mechanics in the engine would benefit/improve the playability of the game overall. If you want less of a 'simulation' and more of a 'game'.. well, that's what Adventure mode will be for, methinks.

[Boksi]

You can always just mod the raws so everything takes longer to grow...

[DJ]

You know what could be a nice way to handle underground mushrooms? Symbiotism. When trees get bigger (IIRC there are plans to make them multi-z-level) perhaps roots could be added too. Then you'd need to plant some mushrooms next to a root tile, and you'd need to keep these roots alive (mostly by not cutting them). Tree roots would also add another nice way to destroy elven forest retreats.

[DonerKebab]

This will always be a game where you have to make your own challenges.  That's why I'm taking wind power three z-levels to power my screw pump that drains my goblin drowning chamber.

That being said, the substantial economic surplus we now have in the game allows a large standing army.  This type of surplus will be essential when the war/campaign arc gets fully developed and we are able to send off our armies.  You really don't want the majority of your population devoted to farming, do you?

[Name Lips]

quote:Originally posted by Boksi:
<STRONG>You can always just mod the raws so everything takes longer to grow...</STRONG>

You know, I was thinking of doing something like this. I was also going to limit each crop to one growing season.