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[rico6822]

Does it mean modifying game by giving option to play as outsider dwarf counts as cheating?

[Starver]

They (or he, if his brother wasn't asked before coding it) might not even have considered it, if it's indeed not a current thing.

Nothing you can mod (most things you can imagine, and plenty of things you haven't yet) is cheating. If something works for you, do it.

[Shonai_Dweller]

"The Devs" make the game to be as customisable as possible. You can tweak almost every part of the simulation to your liking thanks to the effort they (he) put into the raw system which requires no coding, just plain English. Those parts which can't be tweaked yet are planned to be made tweakable.

Outsiders aren't hard coded. Use the massive options menu that is the raws to make whatever you like into an outsider.

[forumist]

What is an "Outsider"? Is that something in adventure mode ?

[Shonai_Dweller]

What is an "Outsider"? Is that something in adventure mode ?

Yes.
It's a character you create who doesn't belong to any of the world's civilizations.

[Bumber]

It's weird that intelligent wilderness creatures can't be outsiders. I'd consider the humans only thing a bug.

[Shonai_Dweller]

It's weird that intelligent wilderness creatures can't be outsiders. I'd consider the humans only thing a bug.

Why? Outsider isn't defined anywhere. How is animal people not existing in this strange nothingness that the outsider emerged from a bug??

The game isn't complete. Things like outsider definitions are expected to exist in a few decades when the game is closer to being complete. Just because you want something which hasn't been made yet, doesn't make it a bug.

[Bumber]

It's weird that intelligent wilderness creatures can't be outsiders. I'd consider the humans only thing a bug.

Why? Outsider isn't defined anywhere. How is animal people not existing in this strange nothingness that the outsider emerged from a bug??

The game isn't complete. Things like outsider definitions are expected to exist in a few decades when the game is closer to being complete. Just because you want something which hasn't been made yet, doesn't make it a bug.

Outsider is someone who doesn't belong to a civilization. Currently all intelligent wilderness creature adventurers must start off as part of a human, dwarf, or elf civilization. That's a bug since wild animal people encountered in savage biomes don't have civ loyalties.

There are separate options on the adventurer race selection for any civilized animal people that may exist. My current save has raven and sparrow men that belong to an elf civ, which is redundant to IWC option:

[Shonai_Dweller]

It's weird that intelligent wilderness creatures can't be outsiders. I'd consider the humans only thing a bug.

Why? Outsider isn't defined anywhere. How is animal people not existing in this strange nothingness that the outsider emerged from a bug??

The game isn't complete. Things like outsider definitions are expected to exist in a few decades when the game is closer to being complete. Just because you want something which hasn't been made yet, doesn't make it a bug.

Outsider is someone who doesn't belong to a civilization. Currently all intelligent wilderness creature adventurers must start off as part of a human, dwarf, or elf civilization. That's a bug since wild animal people encountered in savage biomes don't have civ loyalties.

Um...what?
Read the opening. An Intelligent wilderness creature adventurer is a one-off wild animal person who has just civlized and joined a civ (in exactly the same way wild animal pops can civilize during worldgen - which is what the first list is).

That's their entire backstory. When something works exactly the way it's meant to, it's not a bug even if some people don't like it.

[Bumber]

Um...what?
Read the opening. An Intelligent wilderness creature adventurer is a one-off wild animal person who has just civlized and joined a civ (in exactly the same way wild animal pops can civilize during worldgen - which is what the first list is).

That's their entire backstory. When something works exactly the way it's meant to, it's not a bug even if some people don't like it.

It says that because you chose to start out as part of a civ. It wouldn't if you were to select outsider.

I tried adding the tag [OUTSIDER_CONTROLLABLE] to raven men, and it gives the same "Your wanderings have let you to X. You are a stranger here." that outsider humans get. (The tag also adds the race to the non-IWC list, if it wasn't already. I accidentally applied it to ravens at first, resulting in all raven variants playable.)

[Shonai_Dweller]

Um...what?
Read the opening. An Intelligent wilderness creature adventurer is a one-off wild animal person who has just civlized and joined a civ (in exactly the same way wild animal pops can civilize during worldgen - which is what the first list is).

That's their entire backstory. When something works exactly the way it's meant to, it's not a bug even if some people don't like it.

It says that because you chose to start out as part of a civ. It wouldn't if you were to select outsider.

I tried adding the tag [OUTSIDER_CONTROLLABLE] to raven men, and it gives the same "Your wanderings have let you to X. You are a stranger here." that outsider humans get. (The tag also adds the race to the non-IWC list, if it wasn't already. I accidentally applied it to ravens at first, resulting in all raven variants playable.)

Yes. Choose an outsider it's an outsider.
Choose an intelligent wilderness creature and it's not an outsider because it's not meant to be an outsider and therefore is not a bug, just something we can all mod in and you'd like to see added to the game officially. Game is working exactly as it's intended to. No bugs here, just choices.

[Bumber]

Choose an intelligent wilderness creature and it's not an outsider because it's not meant to be an outsider...

Why, though? It's likely an oversight because animal people weren't playable before in vanilla. Now that they are, it makes no sense that humans can be non-civilized, but intelligent wilderness creatures can't. It's as easy as the IWC deciding not to join the site they randomly stumbled upon.

Nothing speaks to an active choice on Toady's part that IWC "aren't meant to be" outsiders. (And rather than waste time asking what his intent is in the FotF, I'm just going to throw it in the suggestions section.)

[Shonai_Dweller]

Choose an intelligent wilderness creature and it's not an outsider because it's not meant to be an outsider...

Why, though? It's likely an oversight because animal people weren't playable before in vanilla. Now that they are, it makes no sense that humans can be non-civilized, but intelligent wilderness creatures can't. It's as easy as the IWC deciding not to join the site they randomly stumbled upon.

Nothing speaks to an active choice on Toady's part that IWC "aren't meant to be" outsiders. (And rather than waste time asking what his intent is in the FotF, I'm just going to throw it in the suggestions section.)

Animal people are part of this world. Outsiders aren't. Where "outside" is hasn't been defined yet. When it is, likely animal people may be added. But since animal people origins are likely to be tied to the current world and magical experiments, perhaps not. Human outsiders aren't from the wilderness of the current world, so there's no logical connection there. If pops of wild humans existed, then sure. But they don't.

[Bumber]

Animal people are part of this world. Outsiders aren't. Where "outside" is hasn't been defined yet. When it is, likely animal people may be added. But since animal people origins are likely to be tied to the current world and magical experiments, perhaps not.

They could have spread outside the region and immigrated back in, or be created on the spot by Armok. I don't see why they would be limited in any way that humans aren't, given some worlds might not even have humans.

Human outsiders aren't from the wilderness of the current world, so there's no logical connection there. If pops of wild humans existed, then sure. But they don't.

There are populations of human outcasts, bandits, and refugees.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Animal people are part of this world. Outsiders aren't. Where "outside" is hasn't been defined yet. When it is, likely animal people may be added. But since animal people origins are likely to be tied to the current world and magical experiments, perhaps not.

They could have spread outside the region and immigrated back in, or be created on the spot by Armok. I don't see why they would be limited in any way that humans aren't, given some worlds might not even have humans.

Human outsiders aren't from the wilderness of the current world, so there's no logical connection there. If pops of wild humans existed, then sure. But they don't.

There are populations of human outcasts, bandits, and refugees.

Who all came from civilizations, yes. Wild human is not a thing in Dwarf Fortress worlds. Wild animal person is.

Yes, of course there could be outside animal people, no-one said there couldn't. It's the false logic that there must be outsider animal people because there are wild animal people living in the world which I was explaining.