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[Red Diamond]

I mean the setting of DF from a storytelling perspective. In any narrative world, some storylines work and others don't. In a Jane Austen novel, you can't have a monster attack. In the world of Batman, you can't have a comedy of errors. You won't find any fart jokes in an Agatha Christie novel. James Bond can't walk into a room, step on a banana peel, and fall hilariously to the floor. The Simpsons would have a hard time doing an episode on rape. And DF isn't the right setting for an interspecies sex romp.

That is however basically not how Dwarf Fortress works.  It is very much about James Bond stepping on a banana peel as you put it. 

The mechanics for inter-creature breeding/relationships don't presently exist, if they are added in the 'story' of Dwarf Fortress will change; there is no core story to be faithful to.

Did I miss something? How exactly did we get from talking about broader sexual preferences in DF (which I'm not personally opposed to either, but that's just me) to discussing eugenics?

Sorry got a little caught up on the products of the OP's union between races than the suggestion.

If they were all infertile couplings, i could definitely see it as a barrier, akin to having  broadly asexual dwarves simply die out whilst turtling with a sustainable population of a about 50 unrelated people or pre-paired marriages, it might relieve some mood & needs but its nothing that they can't do at the moment. Its nice, but not what a practical DF powergamer looks for if a little bit of a obstacle in itself, you'll be there with your fingers crossed frustrated waiting for them to break up and divorce or creating mechanisms to strain the relationship.

In general this looks better on paper, if they can't make a child, they shouldn't marry or be romantically involved for `traditional reasons`.

Yes, generally societies are iffy about relationships between types of beings that cannot reproduce (like same-sex couples). 

However sometimes societies are iffy about inter-racials relationship precisely for the opposite reason.  They value 'racial purity' and do not want hybrids to exist.  There is the possibility that some hybrids are *actually* the stuff of nightmares, so the prejudices against certain beings mixing are entirely rational. 

[Putnam]

In a Jane Austen novel, you can't have a monster attack.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pride_and_Prejudice_and_Zombies

In the world of Batman, you can't have a comedy of errors.

see: Harley Quinn, Batman: The Brave and the Bold

DF isn't the right setting for an interspecies sex romp.

You're gonna have to justify that further than just making a bunch of analogies, methinks.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Tolkien had interspecies love. So, no, this argument just fails completely. Threetoe's Stories which Dwarf Fortress aspires to recreate procedurally also has interspecies love. So the creators of the game want it, fantasy canon has it. Where is it "not the right setting"??

"A fantasy world generator that fails to recreate basic fantasy tropes" is not the mission statement.

[Red Diamond]

Tolkien had interspecies love. So, no, this argument just fails completely. Threetoe's Stories which Dwarf Fortress aspires to recreate procedurally also has interspecies love. So the creators of the game want it, fantasy canon has it. Where is it "not the right setting"??

"A fantasy world generator that fails to recreate basic fantasy tropes" is not the mission statement.

I think we are dealing with a classic case of someone having an emotional aversion to something and trying to rationalize it.   

To be honest though, the fantasy world generator producing tropes is really a cop-out.  There are all sorts of decisions the devs have to make that will skew the generator towards particular kinds of stories rather than others. 

[Leonidas]

I think we are dealing with a classic case of someone having an emotional aversion to something and trying to rationalize it.   

If you think that the game would be improved with OP's suggestion of "a dwarf female who gets really hot thinking about those sexy sexy kobolds," then that is your privilege.

There's no need to insult me for holding a different opinion.

[Pillbo]

DF isn't the right setting for an interspecies sex romp.

By this logic current DF is an intraspecies sex romp. 

[Leonidas]

DF isn't the right setting for an interspecies sex romp.

By this logic current DF is an intraspecies sex romp. 

There are lots of good sexy games out there. If you want a sexy version of DF, here it is. If you're going to make a game about sex, then go all the way and do it right.

Tolkien had interspecies love. So, no, this argument just fails completely.

1. Tolkien had half-breeds as part of Middle Earth's larger issues of racial affinity and animosity.
2. Tolkien did not write sex scenes.

Breeding, genetics, and racial issues are completely different from sexualizing the game with OP's idea of "a dwarf female who gets really hot thinking about those sexy sexy kobolds."

[FantasticDorf]

However sometimes societies are iffy about inter-racials relationship precisely for the opposite reason.  They value 'racial purity' and do not want hybrids to exist.  There is the possibility that some hybrids are *actually* the stuff of nightmares, so the prejudices against certain beings mixing are entirely rational.

I know Toady is a open minded individual, theres full configurability already with the understood sensitivity that DF is a international product and the laws of different countries interpret acceptable relationships differently (hence you can configure total straight cut heterosexuality throughout the entire game for instance).  But even still, having it be a free-for all doesn't seem intuitive to the player, and there would be a lot of redundant childless marriages. It could be configured more as a means of `attraction` which kind of plays into the infrastructure of relationships dwarves have already, where when at a certain level of friendship the make or break moment may be that said dwarf makes a romantic gesture infront of the elf and ends up completely rebuked in a one sided relationship.

Dwarves might have a naturally normal range for themselves and some other what may be seen as relevant choices in different values, dwarves with a particular preference-interest in a sentient being may have some sort of unnatural fixation on the appropriate gender of it for themselves. A dwarf who admires humans for their height or ambition is likely going to romantically approach one with varied results even if the chances of mutual attraction are small.

[Shonai_Dweller]

DF isn't the right setting for an interspecies sex romp.

By this logic current DF is an intraspecies sex romp. 

There are lots of good sexy games out there. If you want a sexy version of DF, here it is. If you're going to make a game about sex, then go all the way and do it right.

Tolkien had interspecies love. So, no, this argument just fails completely.

1. Tolkien had half-breeds as part of Middle Earth's larger issues of racial affinity and animosity.
2. Tolkien did not write sex scenes.

Breeding, genetics, and racial issues are completely different from sexualizing the game with OP's idea of "a dwarf female who gets really hot thinking about those sexy sexy kobolds."

So how would you simulate it? Half-elves, like everything else in the game, won't just randomly appear for the sake of the story. That's not Dwarf Fortress. Tolkien may have been able to ignore it, but Dwarf Fortress actually can't.

Would you have an entirely random chance that a human and Elf can fall in love just as often as a human and another human? Have it based on shared values (dwarf who respects nature is more likely to have sex with an elf)?

Right now each person in a Dwarf Fortress world has a sexual preference (men, women, both, neither), a tendancy towards taking multiple lovers or not and feelings about commitment. Is expanding that the way to go, or have it completely based on civilization values and ethics?

Rather than shouting "no sex in my game" in a game full of sex already, try discussing. Don't fall into the trap of thinking Toady will ever feel obliged to implement a suggestion based solely on the OP's description of it. He won't and will continue to make Dwarf Fortress according to his own vision.

[Putnam]

Leonidas, you know that there's an entire personality trait dedicated to lustiness in the game already, right? Someone with an especially high lust propensity will take many lovers, and if you ask them how they're feeling and they have no emotions right now, they will say, I joke not, "I'm feeling randy today!"

I think you've just missed the "raunchier" content the game has.

[FantasticDorf]

But even within the same context, procreation is still simply standing next to somebody for a chance to become pregnant when in the appropriate format of relationship, not ragging on you or anything Leonidas. It used to be cross map in the past irregardless of contact.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Yep. No indication anywhere that Toady intends to change this just because interspecies sex is added.

[Leonidas]

Rather than shouting "no sex in my game" in a game full of sex already, try discussing.

Yes, we could discuss divergent points of view in an atmosphere of tolerance, free from stereotypes and personal attacks. Wouldn't that be nice?

Do you truly not see a difference between a game that includes reproduction and a game that includes erotic content? How would you react to a proposal to add rape, prostitution, and bestiality?

[Starver]

...you mean several things which seem to be somewhat short of the complete mutual consent of a love-across-the-divide situation as is being discussed?

(I mean, I'm sure you can probaably go the whole Fenoxo, with suitable modding, but there's plenty of other moral harms in the game and this suggestion is nowhere that. I'm not sure that we're anywhere close to that particular extrapolation.)

[Leonidas]

...you mean several things which seem to be somewhat short of the complete mutual consent of a love-across-the-divide situation as is being discussed?

Is that what's being discussed? I thought we were discussing OP's risque boundary-pushing suggestion of "a dwarf female who gets really hot thinking about those sexy sexy kobolds." (Half-breeds and interspecies breeding have already been discussed extensively.)

I stated that some types of content fit better in some narrative settings than in others, and DF is not an appropriate place for erotic content. Instead of leading to a discussion of which types of content would best fit DF, this led to some harsh, insulting, and incoherent responses. People got triggered.

Looking through the archives, this whole sex conversation has already been worked through here, and probably elsewhere. So we could work over the same ground again: Can this hypothetical dwarf also get aroused thinking about a gorlak? A sheep? An antman? And where did this "complete mutual consent" idea come from? But let's not go there.

I've spent years in the real world studying narrative. So I thought that I was making fairly obvious points about the connections between settings, moods, and plots. Some people found my comments confusing and upsetting, and for that I apologize.