Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Sajiky]

It might be risque, but it seems you have no problem pushing those boundaries. Actually now that I think about it, I can't say for certain you don't have this in there already.

Considering the number of humanoid races, have you considered putting in cross species sexual proclivities? Say a dwarf female who gets really hot thinking about those sexy sexy kobolds.

[voliol]

There is a Threetoe story about a half-elf/half-goblin and her parents, though I doubt the latter's relationship was ever described in that way. But you have a point. Elves (and other fantasy beings) are often described as alluringly beautiful, even to members of other species, and that is a case of cross-species proclivities, just a case not bound to individuals. Being such a common trope, it would be a shame if it didn't make it in. It would technically add some realism too, as IRL humans do definitely not restrict themselves to what is 100% human.

Also I find it really funny. +1

[Sajiky]

There is a Threetoe story about a half-elf/half-goblin and her parents, though I doubt the latter's relationship was ever described in that way. But you have a point. Elves (and other fantasy beings) are often described as alluringly beautiful, even to members of other species, and that is a case of cross-species proclivities, just a case not bound to individuals. Being such a common trope, it would be a shame if it didn't make it in. It would technically add some realism too, as IRL humans do definitely not restrict themselves to what is 100% human.

Also I find it really funny. +1

To me there is no question whatsoever that in a fantasy world that stuff would happen all the damn time heh. Hell, I'd probably be getting busy cross species myself, if our world was a fantasy one.

If you haven't, check out Glen Cook's Garrett PI books sometime. He hits the nail on the head about that stuff, like he does with so much other realism in his fantasy. The majority of non-human emigrants in Tun-Fare (sp?) are described as "breeds" (usually in a derogatory manner by the human rights types). Breeds are mixed breeds, because every single sentient creature in that world can cross breed with all the others. Well assuming the sized differences work enough to make that possible.There's three part gnoll part giant characters who claim to be triplet brothers from three different mothers (don't ask, even they don't know how that worked).

Those and his Black Company books have to be the most realistic (in the sense of peoples motivations, actions, ways of speaking etc) fantasy ever put on paper.

Not to mention the Black Company books are hands down the best fantasy ever written.

[IndigoFenix]

The way the creatures are coded right now, it would be exceedingly difficult to create a cross-breed between two species, since the game has no way of equating the traits of one creature with that of another.  Sure, in the vanilla game all sapient creatures happen to be humanoid, but there's nothing that prevents you from adding a sapient octopus made of magama vapor as a civilized race.  Without some way of marking whether two creatures are breedable, and a whole system to determine what happens when they breed, there is no direct relationship between them.

Allowing cross-species romance and marriage is trivial though.

[Pillbo]

I asked Toady about this a while back, it sounds to me like he's not interested in doing it until he can made reproduction viable. Which is too bad because I think it could still be great for plot points without it, no big deal if they are infertile relationships.

1. With the update to relationships coming will we see any cross race romance (if it doesn't happen now and I've just never seen it)? Ignoring half-bred offspring, I think it would be cool to see dwarves marry the local goblin or plump helmet man, or even cross-racial political marriages to give legitimacy to the odd elf who becomes a dwarven king, or to unite rival villain gangs.

1. I haven't changed anything about it yet and don't have any particular plans.  It's a common enough theme, but it'd probably introduce some odd bugs due to the variable mismatches, so I might do it all at once, once we solve the child etc. issues.

[Red Diamond]

I think it would probably require a lot of information to be stored in the character files without a corresponding gameplay functionality.  Most of the time these preferences are going to go unused, similar to present food preferences (very broken).  It is also questionable in other respects, as we can just make people randomly fall in love with individuals other races and then we can surmise there is a preference without having to centrally define that there is one.

[Leonidas]

DF is best when it stays true to its setting and point of view, rather than trying to reflect modern sensibilities. It should not be a game about sex.

[Shonai_Dweller]

DF is best when it stays true to its setting and point of view, rather than trying to reflect modern sensibilities. It should not be a game about sex.

Have you ever read a fantasy novel? That's what it's trying to emulate. Half-Elf has been a thing forever.

[FantasticDorf]

DF is best when it stays true to its setting and point of view, rather than trying to reflect modern sensibilities. It should not be a game about sex.

I agree, too much politics or overemphasis on it and can end up diluting the game content into a cultural wasteland where the subject of 'sex' is vapid and shallow. But at the same time i want to see eugenics !science! of someone's perfectly bred highly statted dwarves and the grisly measures they took to ensure that it happened akin to the dog-pit dwarven daycare programme.

You can already make a Orwellian state in game by producing high quality persuasive propaganda in the form of books and speakers, it just takes a long time to get the skills together to manage it because sloppy writing skill progression; and even a universal 1 church theocracy of zealots by herding everyone in earshot of a persuasive sermon taking place (x10) until they're mad believers Red State style.

Or by a more tame example, somehow breeding dogs to have the hair-length of sheep selectively by stranding them on a dug out plateu, with unwanted dogs carefully culled to not contribute to the dog-splosion. Real life Native Americans kept wool dogs as precious commodities for making ceremonial blankets when they were sheared in may; reputedly also keeping their prized dogs on islands fed with cooked salmon and looked after at all times.

[PlumpHelmetMan]

Did I miss something? How exactly did we get from talking about broader sexual preferences in DF (which I'm not personally opposed to either, but that's just me) to discussing eugenics?

[Leonidas]

i want to see eugenics !science! of someone's perfectly bred highly statted dwarves and the grisly measures they took to ensure that it happened akin to the dog-pit dwarven daycare programme.

You can already make a Orwellian state in game by producing high quality persuasive propaganda in the form of books and speakers, it just takes a long time to get the skills together to manage it because sloppy writing skill progression; and even a universal 1 church theocracy of zealots by herding everyone in earshot of a persuasive sermon taking place (x10) until they're mad believers Red State style.

Or by a more tame example, somehow breeding dogs to have the hair-length of sheep selectively by stranding them on a dug out plateu, with unwanted dogs carefully culled to not contribute to the dog-splosion. Real life Native Americans kept wool dogs as precious commodities for making ceremonial blankets when they were sheared in may; reputedly also keeping their prized dogs on islands fed with cooked salmon and looked after at all times.

Yes, genetics would be fun, especially as applied to domesticated animals that breed quickly. With slower-breeding animals, you would need decades to mold the genomes. With dwarves, you would need centuries. And it would be very complicated for Toady to design. I'm skeptical on whether the effort involved would be worth the added fun.

[Red Diamond]

DF is best when it stays true to its setting and point of view, rather than trying to reflect modern sensibilities. It should not be a game about sex.

I am a little confused, we do not actually know what the setting of DF is actually like because there are so many missing game mechanics.

You can already make a Orwellian state in game by producing high quality persuasive propaganda in the form of books and speakers, it just takes a long time to get the skills together to manage it because sloppy writing skill progression; and even a universal 1 church theocracy of zealots by herding everyone in earshot of a persuasive sermon taking place (x10) until they're mad believers Red State style.

Even if what you are teaching them is the worthlessness of power?  Peacefully persuading people is not an Orwellian State just because the government does it.

To tangentially return to the topic, dwarves should really have an opinion on cross-racial mixing and the status of half-breeds.

[Leonidas]

DF is best when it stays true to its setting and point of view, rather than trying to reflect modern sensibilities. It should not be a game about sex.

I am a little confused, we do not actually know what the setting of DF is actually like because there are so many missing game mechanics.

I mean the setting of DF from a storytelling perspective. In any narrative world, some storylines work and others don't. In a Jane Austen novel, you can't have a monster attack. In the world of Batman, you can't have a comedy of errors. You won't find any fart jokes in an Agatha Christie novel. James Bond can't walk into a room, step on a banana peel, and fall hilariously to the floor. The Simpsons would have a hard time doing an episode on rape. And DF isn't the right setting for an interspecies sex romp.

[Jundavr]

DF is best when it stays true to its setting and point of view, rather than trying to reflect modern sensibilities. It should not be a game about sex.

I am a little confused, we do not actually know what the setting of DF is actually like because there are so many missing game mechanics.

I mean the setting of DF from a storytelling perspective. In any narrative world, some storylines work and others don't. In a Jane Austen novel, you can't have a monster attack. In the world of Batman, you can't have a comedy of errors. You won't find any fart jokes in an Agatha Christie novel. James Bond can't walk into a room, step on a banana peel, and fall hilariously to the floor. The Simpsons would have a hard time doing an episode on rape. And DF isn't the right setting for an interspecies sex romp.

I agree on this point, but I'm not entirely sure that's the way DF is going. It's still an incomplete game, and we don't know for sure where everything is going, but for me at least, cross breeding and interspecies romantic relationships just don't fit.

[FantasticDorf]

Did I miss something? How exactly did we get from talking about broader sexual preferences in DF (which I'm not personally opposed to either, but that's just me) to discussing eugenics?

Sorry got a little caught up on the products of the OP's union between races than the suggestion.

If they were all infertile couplings, i could definitely see it as a barrier, akin to having  broadly asexual dwarves simply die out whilst turtling with a sustainable population of a about 50 unrelated people or pre-paired marriages, it might relieve some mood & needs but its nothing that they can't do at the moment. Its nice, but not what a practical DF powergamer looks for if a little bit of a obstacle in itself, you'll be there with your fingers crossed frustrated waiting for them to break up and divorce or creating mechanisms to strain the relationship.

In general this looks better on paper, if they can't make a child, they shouldn't marry or be romantically involved for `traditional reasons`.