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Author Topic: The Mystery of the Mother of Algebra  (Read 2099 times)

Ihtomyt

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The Mystery of the Mother of Algebra
« on: July 24, 2020, 03:05:29 pm »

So I like periodically looking through legends mode on my active fortress, not considering it cheating, but actually kind of the point of the game for me, to read the story. I came across a very strange thing, that books were being destroyed in my fort I knew nothing about. I was worried that someone had gone missing I hadn't noticed, but no one I didn't already know about being dead was. I followed the evidence back to a seemingly mundane dwarf named Ustuth Endokustir, who was a migrant that came in as a cook. Nothing seemed interesting about her at a glance, but it turns out, she independently discovered mathematical principles, she wrote the books that were destroyed, and they were in her possession when they were destroyed. Oh, and she has killed a few goblins and trolls in the war to boot.

I don't have a trash compactor set up, or any magma exposed, and no fires have broken out, and no cave ins have happened since she moved in, so I'm not sure how it could have been accidentally destroyed. Are dwarves able to intentionally destroy books? Did she burn her own works?

So, yes, she independently discovered multiple mathematical principles, and is an expert mathematician and grand master logician! Shortly after making these discoveries in her former home, she got a divorce, and then moved to an elven retreat... where she wrote the books. The books were titled "Life With Completing the Square" and "The Axioms". Given that she invented the algebras "balancing and completion", "solving linear systems", and "quadratic by completing the square", I have a feeling these books were on these very mathematical subjects. Why she would have destroyed these books (assuming that's what happened) is beyond me. From a narrative perspective, it seems to me like she is pretty depressed over her divorce, and those books reminded her of her former husband. Running away to the forest retreat, and now to my fortress, wasn't enough to make her forget.

Of course, now that I am aware she has these talents, I intend to put her to work in the library as soon as possible. I had her rendering tallow! Maybe she'll write them again, but I don't know how the game works, so maybe not. Maybe she'll discover and write new things! Very interesting, and I wonder if anyone has any idea why these books were destroyed from a game logic perspective.
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A_Curious_Cat

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Re: The Mystery of the Mother of Algebra
« Reply #1 on: July 24, 2020, 03:11:20 pm »

Have you checked the tallow for pieces of paper?
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Ihtomyt

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Re: The Mystery of the Mother of Algebra
« Reply #2 on: July 24, 2020, 03:16:36 pm »

Have you checked the tallow for pieces of paper?

Amazing! Whatever really happened, this is now the only thing I can imagine! Thanks for that.

I just found another book I missed, which she also wrote and seemingly destroyed, titled "Never Underestimate Assumptions". I certainly just assumed she was a cook when she migrated in, but boy was I wrong!
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Leonidas

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Re: The Mystery of the Mother of Algebra
« Reply #3 on: July 24, 2020, 03:53:02 pm »

Check the history of the elven retreat. Was it ransacked or conquered? That would be my first thought on how the books got destroyed.

The game tracks each scholar's knowledge of each topic, as a bit. So your scholar still has the knowledge, and she will likely either write new books on those subjects or teach them to her fellow scholars. Unfortunately, there's not yet a tool with which to track the knowledge of your scholars. So you can't see exactly who knows what, and how well the knowledge is spreading. But it should be spreading.
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knutor

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Re: The Mystery of the Mother of Algebra
« Reply #4 on: July 24, 2020, 03:57:33 pm »

Thats interesting. Be sure to set MAKE COPIES with her around the bookshelves.

My guess is a kea stole it, and that Legends interpretted a non-named generic entity stealing and hauling off into limboland, off the embark map, as destruction. Just a hunch, from msgs recieved when masterworks go astray.

On book binding, the game is somewhat erroneous. Ive given all my dwarfs 'Bookbinding" in therapist, and set manager to bind a book daily, check repeatedly. All I get is a dwarf walking to Craft workshop, to bind, then walking away. He doesnt even bring a squirm.

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"I don't often drink Mead, but when I do... I prefer Dee Eef's.  -The most interesting Dwarf in the World.  Stay thirsty, my friend.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: The Mystery of the Mother of Algebra
« Reply #5 on: July 24, 2020, 04:12:15 pm »

No, they're not able to destroy artifacts on their own. If you'd destroyed them with a drawbridge (which can cause unintentional atom smashing), I'd expect there to be an announcement about artifacts being destroyed (magma wouldn't destroy them either, although falling to the SMR through the magma might). Thus, I suspect they were destroyed elsewhere, and just erroneously being reported as destroyed in your fortress because the author is there (so I'm tracing the same line of thought as Leonidas does).

DF knows about things stolen, including artifacts, and issues an announcement when that happens. DF also knows about artifacts getting lost at various places (as well as found later).

As usual, I'm having trouble understanding what knutor is trying to say, despite not even using gobble speak this time. Book binders make quires (what "squirm" is meant to mean?), and assuming you've got parchments/papyrus/vellum they'll make those. Quires are then intended to be stored in chests/bags in the library and are then used when someone finally decides to write something down.
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Ihtomyt

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Re: The Mystery of the Mother of Algebra
« Reply #6 on: July 24, 2020, 04:18:56 pm »

It is hard to tell if it is just a weird limitation of legends mode or the game overall or if the books are actually destroyed or just lost. Looking at it more carefully, the elven retreat is still there, not under siege or rampage, and there is no record of the book there other than its creation. The book does look to be destroyed the very instant she entered my fortress map, so my guess is that it's either a bug, or misreported by legends mode. Like you said, it might have been stolen or moved into the wilderness, or it could have been destroyed the instant she migrated for gods know what reason. I like A_Curious_Cat's suggestion that she pulped it into the tallow, in frustration or to hide her past. Since it isn't clear in the game's notes what really happened, I'm still going with that for my head cannon :)

It's good to know she might still write those books or ones on the same topics again. I am working on making some quires now (and haven't had any problems with squirms/quires in past fortresses) but I wasn't really focused on any library stuff, focusing on masterwork steel equipment, so it will be a bit to get it up and running. Have to mill and press some stuff, hadn't really bought any sheets from merchants. If she ever writes anything again, I'll update here.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: The Mystery of the Mother of Algebra
« Reply #7 on: July 24, 2020, 08:12:35 pm »

It's a bug. Creators of artifacts arrive at a player fortress carrying their artifacts and they're destroyed.

Ettins get to turn up welding other people's artifacts, so seems a bit unfair.

(I'd link to the tracker, but bug tracker search using my phone breaks sometimes, appears to be broken now. Will try again on the PC later).
« Last Edit: July 24, 2020, 08:15:47 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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Ihtomyt

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Re: The Mystery of the Mother of Algebra
« Reply #8 on: July 24, 2020, 08:27:25 pm »

Well, coming up with narrative reasons for explaining bugs and other behaviors in Dwarf Fortress seems to be a well-established tradition. Thanks for letting me know it's indeed a bug. Shame about the artifacts themselves, but oh well. I just had my military murder a thieving treasure hunter hamster man, and acquired 2 other books from his corpse, so it all works out.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: The Mystery of the Mother of Algebra
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2020, 08:29:53 pm »

Well, coming up with narrative reasons for explaining bugs and other behaviors in Dwarf Fortress seems to be a well-established tradition. Thanks for letting me know it's indeed a bug. Shame about the artifacts themselves, but oh well. I just had my military murder a thieving treasure hunter hamster man, and acquired 2 other books from his corpse, so it all works out.
Oh, yes, sorry. Didn't mean to detail your narrative musings.  :)
The weirdness is one of the most fun things about making DF stories.
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A_Curious_Cat

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Re: The Mystery of the Mother of Algebra
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2020, 09:19:13 pm »

My first thought was that maybe there was a bug that caused her to use the books as reagents in the "render fat" reaction.

Looking forward to that link to the bug report.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Ihtomyt

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Re: The Mystery of the Mother of Algebra
« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2020, 01:11:29 pm »

Thanks for clarifying the specific bug.

Just as a note, this dwarf has now become a scholar, or more specifically, a mathematician. It also inspired me to look through my other dwarves and make several of them scholars and scribes. They have been happily writing books. Ustuth here has also been pondering congruent triangles, but wrote a book about herbal remedies. Another dwarf wrote a book about how the sun revolves around the earth... :P
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Leonidas

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Re: The Mystery of the Mother of Algebra
« Reply #13 on: July 27, 2020, 04:44:02 pm »

Since you're enjoying playing with books and scholars, be sure to use Patrik's Librarian script.
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Ihtomyt

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Re: The Mystery of the Mother of Algebra
« Reply #14 on: July 29, 2020, 10:27:17 pm »

Since you're enjoying playing with books and scholars, be sure to use Patrik's Librarian script.

I didn't even realize, being still quite new to the game in terms of playtime and content engaged with, that books were for anything other than abstract thinking needs (aside from the very unlikely chance one is used to clobber something in combat), and one minor spoilery use of particular books. It looks like they can also change personal values? That could be interesting. If the right combination exists int he fortress, and with some extreme, but possible, micromanaging/lever tricks/locked doors/burrows, it seems to me we could get dwarves, or even a particular dwarf, to read certain books. Will a dwarf get any "benefits" from reading the same book more than once? In theory, could a book be used to soften or eliminate "undesirable" personal values (or add them!)? If so, there seems to be a practical use for this tool, though the fun of reading this stuff is it's own reward.
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