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Author Topic: WH40K Darktide. Despite the power of Chaos, the Imperium stands!  (Read 22651 times)

Persus13

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I'm slowly identifying the specials, but I still have no clue what makes a sniper different from a random chaos guardsman.
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nenjin

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If the sniper hits you, it's like 3/4 of your health in one shot. Looks more like a gauss rifle than a las shot.

So far the beta has been pretty much everything I thought it would be. Crashes, networking problems, inability to log in at times, plenty of bugs and weird behavior, unstable performance (the game was using up about 95% of my 16 gigs of memory so it's probably leaking like a sieve), desyncs.....

And for all that I still am having a pretty good time. Too fried to expound on it much more right now.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Egan_BW

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to be fair if I got shot by a longlas it would probably take off more than 75% of my health
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Persus13

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I more meant appearance wise. Outside of the red line, I've not got no idea what a sniper looks like other than a vague humanoid shape.

I found out the beta is on GeForce Now, so I decided to give that a shot and that's probably how I'm going to be playing Darktide for at least the beta. Medium graphics is a massive improvement and performance is better than for me on low.
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Congratulations Persus, now you are forced to have the same personal text for an entire year!
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Shooer

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Snipers look like shorter normal traitor guards with a cloak.  Think they got 3 glowing eyes instead of 2, they'll climb up things to get high to shoot. I think they are supposed to be hard to spot and all that, so not knowing what they look like is kind of the point.

Tried veteran.  Liked being able to just keep shooting for most of the time.  Currently trying psyker, mainly because I never ran into game with another player playing them.

Where the veteran was there to just kill most things from range, the psyker's job is get in the way in melee and to finally help when they chunk off the health of bosses.  Think I was taking off 1/10 the health of the ogryn and the assassination boss with head popper.
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Folly

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I heard about signups through Steam. Despite what I said before I decided to give it one more shot. One click, I was signed up, within minutes I got the acceptance email.

I played a lot of games last night. No crashes, generally smooth fps on my low-end PC. Only one instance of lag which was pretty bad but only lasted a minute and didn't get me killed.

I breezed through the first two difficulty tiers, then spent the rest of my night banging my head against difficulty 3 and never managed to finish a mission. Really huge spike in challenge there. Felt like old times in Vermintide.

I kinda hate the visual style they have going on. Darktide is completely loaded up with motion blur, bloom, godrays, fog, shadows, and every other unnecessarily fancy special effect they could find. Even after turning most of them off in the settings, more often than not I still can't see the guy shooting at me from across the room through a murky wall of particles.
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nenjin

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Yeah, the sponginess of enemies starting at difficulty 3 is noticeable. But bear in mind, that's basically Champion difficulty from VT2, and we were hitting it before anyone was really Rank 10 even. So that'd been pretty early to attempt Champion in VT2 unless you really knew what you were doing.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Dostoevsky

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I heard about signups through Steam. Despite what I said before I decided to give it one more shot. One click, I was signed up, within minutes I got the acceptance email.

Huh, you ain't kidding. Haven't even pre-ordered, but figured I'd give the steam sign-up a try after reading about this. Got in after a few minutes. Time to download...
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nenjin

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I coulda swore that the marketing material for DT said that levels were randomized in terms of how big set pieces connect.

So far that doesn't seem to be the case in Beta. Levels seem static. Even though in the industrial sprawl it can be hard to tell one set piece from another, after a good hours 6 last night things started to become familiar. I don't know if that's a feature of full release or they had to back away from it or I'm pulling that memory out of thin air.....

But the game already has a pretty big "uh which way do we go?" problem. Yeah there's call outs for "This way!" like VT2 but so far they don't stand out especially well. And I can't remember feeling quite this lost in VT2. Usually it was "Do we go forward or backward" not "Uh.....forward, backward, left or right?" If they randomize these levels in full release, that's going to be even harder. All the normal telegraphing techniques like lighting, call outs, funneling, environmental story telling......seem overwhelmed here. Like yeah, on one of my last games before I crashed out last night, I did notice a pair of double arrows stenciled on to a wall.

But there's no big signs like "Coolant Rod Containment Room" with arrows pointing to it. What might be environmental guidance gets mistaken as grimdark flair half the time.

And yet....just pushing forward still seems to get you where you need to go most of the time. It just doesn't feel like you're really understanding it and it's just blind luck that's getting you there.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Dostoevsky

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Welp, my graphics setting are stuck at ultra-pixelated low regardless of what I set them to (and while I don't have a top-end rig I'm not exactly potato), and have been getting a bunch of crashes. Hopefully useful beta data for them, hah.
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nenjin

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I've noticed many settings don't take even if you set them. Like, a lot of the "Toggle to do this action" settings don't seem to get respected. Weirdly my graphics settings have stayed set where most people report both input and graphics settings get reset every launch.
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Persus13

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I coulda swore that the marketing material for DT said that levels were randomized in terms of how big set pieces connect.
From what I recall reading, its less randomized levels and more the levels are big areas with multiple missions set in them and you might go through the level from a different start and end based on what the mission is. And as far as I can tell, the 4 beta missions are on different maps.
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Congratulations Persus, now you are forced to have the same personal text for an entire year!
Longbowmen horsearcher doomstacks that suffer no attrition and can navigate all major rivers without ships.
Sigtext

nenjin

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Starting to feel like this is, as someone on Reddit put it, less of a Beta and more a preview of the final game.

And while I do like it and am enjoying it, I'm a little troubled by what feels like regressions from VT2 in terms of what they learned and applied there, and how some basic 101 stuff isn't in this build for a game this close to release.

I also kind of suspect the game was primarily designed for consoles. It just feels like there's a lot of tells, that might explain why so much of the control scheme is jank, missing obvious functionality and has lots of weird bugs. For example, the lack of mouse sensitivity sliders (while the controller has them in settings) That certain keys can't be read (not exactly uncommon with a lot of games.) That there's no secondary key bindings for keyboards controls. All feels like someone rushed actually doing keyboard inputs for the game, is new to it, whatever. My 360 controller, when plugged in, actually causes the controller button prompts to pop up every once in a while, even when my controller is just sitting there.

And then other little things like....big chunky UI and text that you can see from a couch as opposed to a PC screen. (At least there's the setting for controlling font size, and reducing it by half makes it look mostly like it did in VT2.)

Or that there's many informational bits of the UI that are unlabeled icons with no tooltips, and Fatshark's style of inscrutable mechanics feels even more opaque now.  And the descriptions for weapons traits, in several cases, are completely broken text labels or the descriptions are so vague you don't really know what the trait does. I saw one tonight that was like "Rampage: Increase 15% for 10 seconds after killing an elite (or something.)" Increase WHAT by 15%. There are multiple traits like that. Like there's a keyword variable that is just missing. And the actual traits themselves I've seen, it feels like there's omissions that I hope will be in the full game. Like....no traits relating to more stamina or block cost reduction or....any of that stuff VT2 has?

You'd think with release 1.5 months away, and your second beta test you'd....have cleaned some of that stuff up by now? For a company with this much time and success under their belts? Is this the older beta build from like over a month ago?

The networking and yadda yadda, I can be a little more forgiving on. But this is like basic, "your game is readable and useable" stuff. Is the game going to be basic AND busted at release?

I'm kind of encouraged they're not patching the beta version as things go along. If they were that would really make me nervous that we're playing largely what we can expect at launch (plus additional content of course.)

And again, it's just kind of mind boggling, some of the QoL and smart things VT2 did that are absent from Darktide. Like, a player outlines turned on permanently setting? The current cool but kind of useless x-ray outline is of zero use when you're in a mob of guys, surrounded by flames and can't see your team even though they're 2 feet away. Its only benefit is being able to see your friends through walls or when they get a certain distance away. Maybe true player outlines are absent from Darktide because they felt it clashes with the visual aesthetic....but that was like an automatic "turn that shit on" for every new player in VT2.

Like I said, I'm still looking forward to release but there are some things that are shaking my confidence in how finished and polished of a product we get. I'm really hoping this is just an older build, and not that Fatshark is basically in a rush to finish it and won't be able to get to most of these things until after release. AKA.....the curse of 40k videogames.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2022, 03:04:46 am by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti

Shooer

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the lack of mouse sensitivity sliders
I was wondering what you meant because I changed mouse sensitivity as soon as I started playing.  Then I went and looked and the mouse sensitivity slider was missing.  Missing at the character select screen, missing when loaded into the lobby zone, and missing still when loaded into a mission.

It was there when I first launched it in training.
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nenjin

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So if I had to pick three things to say about the Beta or big takes I agree with, it'd be these.

-The gameplay was a ton of fun.
-This feels like a preview of the final game, and less like a Beta build.
-The "game" around the "game" kind of sucks.

1. I did have a ton of fun in the beta. In-level gameplay is pretty good. I think DT has more interesting pacing than VT2. VT2 pacing was largely "Push forward as fast as you can until you hit a block of enemies too thick to just punch through." DT requires you play more carefully. You can play it like VT2 and it will mostly work. But the ambushes are much nastier in DT than in VT2. You walk into a big open space, start mixing it up in melee, and then get absolutely destroyed by gunners, bombers, las guys and all sorts of stuff that is hiding in the shadows or behind some cover. A small unit of las guys will shred your face off if they start shooting at you as a group. So you gotta move cover to cover and sometimes you just gotta slow down and deal with the ranged. As someone who occasionally found the "all go no slow" meta of VT2 kind of one note, I appreciate how DT manages to do both based on what the situation is. There were several times we just got bogged down and really had to leverage all our class specialties together to succeed. I really enjoyed it and DT had plenty of pants on fire moments of total bedlam. Especially on the last night, where the spawns just seemed to be crazy. We had one run where we came to massive room of walkways suspended over the void. We got no less than _10_ total scab gunners and Ogryn reapers. You couldn't poke your head above cover to look across the chasm without getting your face blown off. There have been times in VT2 where you get enough gunners and gas rats that you felt pinned, but at the end of the day the solution was usually "let the elf kill the gunner and then we all rush in." This was by far and away much tougher to deal with in DT, due to the mechanics and the level lay out. I'd also say that, man, your brain and eyes have to work much harder over the course of a run in DT. In VT2 things stand out very clearly, you don't have to work that hard to know what you're looking at or if you're hitting it. As mentioned above by others, between the lighting and all the post-processing effects, just SEEING something that isn't right in front of you in DT takes additional effort compared to VT2. And the pixel hunting on guys at extreme range (the beta didn't have any scope or anything for your guns), after a couple hours kind of wore my eyes out. Along with that, you just have to be more alert in DT than in VT2. 90% of stuff in VT2 comes running straight at you. But I'd say 40% of the stuff in DT likes to hang back, shadow you, take pot shots at you then hide. It can be REALLY frustrating trying to figure out where enemy las fire is coming from, particularly where you're being shot from above and below. It's a pretty different flow to VT2 at different points of play. You feel like the hunted as often as being the hunter. And having an actual enemy sniper out there feels like you're playing a WW2 shooter, where you don't know where the sniper is and they will for real fuck your shit up if they catch you out in the open.

2. Like I said in above posts. If this is the build where Fatshark was ~2 months ago, then I have some cause for concern for release. There is A LOT of shit that's wrong with the game right now, and it's dumb low-hanging "why is this a step backwards from VT2?" stuff. I work in software. I get that redoing every feature from some previous thing isn't a cakewalk, it's all still work. It's not that I think Fatshark CAN'T do it or anything....they just seem like they needed more time still. All their focus was on the new stuff, the art, the levels, the content, making sure gameplay was great......but returning VT2 players are looking for things that took Fatshark YEARS to finally listen about an add to VT2. Or things that were there from Day 1 in VT that aren't present in DT's beta. To see them missing from DT this close to release makes one wonder if we'll have to wait another few YEARS for them to return. Like, if the release were early 2023 I have no doubt most of my concerns would be handled by then. But time is short, and there's just so much we noticed that seemed wrong or half-baked or just completely absent. Lots of QoL features that VT2 really needed. Lots and lots and lots of bugs. Many instances of work that still seemed in that seemed of "first draft" quality.

3. It should probably be no surprise but, the things they've historically been experts at are great, and the things that are newish aren't. The hub, while I like the idea, I don't need it and it's pretty barebones. There's Armorium for buying new weapons, the Requisitorium where you do weekly tasks and buy yet more weapons, the mission hub, a room where you can repeat the tutorial and I think one vendor that wasn't active that's for modifying weapons. That's it. The mission hub is a big circular area, and then you have two sets of hallways connected to that that contain the rest of the hub area. There's.....just not much there. There's no sitting areas, or places to hang out, no emotes, and no real detail to pay attention to. Are those things completely superfluous? Absolutely. But why do you even have a MP hub at that point, because that shit is 200% superfluous. It's like, if you were going to do it you should have done it well and made it feature complete, instead of something barebones that no one asked for in the first place. Hey, you know what I'd rather see than 60 randos who all look too similar to each other in my hub? MY FRIENDS. And while it's kind of nice to buy gear directly between runs instead of juggling annoying loot crates constantly, it's pretty bland and soulless just going to a vendor menu and buying the same thing you're already using, but better. I hated the loot boxes in VT after a while but at least it had that pizazz, that casino/slot machine factor. I really appreciate the time savings so there's no mandatory 10 minutes of opening loot boxes and fiddling with shit before you can run another mission (maybe that will be in the full game), but it's bland and uninteresting. The UI in particular doesn't help, it's all very flat and again, feels like a 1st draft of a final product. The networking issues, disconnects from the various servers that keep all this going, the little outro cutscenes for missions that look completely janky because the timing is all fucked up......basically everything except the actual in-mission gameplay has issues of one kind or another. Most I'd classify as minor and cosmetic but there are plenty of big ones, and they're all ugly in their own way and very clearly detract from the game's polish.

I know some of this is being a returning player and coming from the highly polished, lovingly iterated VT2. New game, new problems, I suppose. But the # of "solved problems" where the solutions aren't in DT really surprise me and kind of disappoint me.

If the game is any more stable than the beta was by release, all will be well, because gameplay is fun and solid. But I think it's going to be another year after release before Fatshark really sands down the rough edges and glues all the many many features of VT2 to the frame of DT. Weapon balance, UI, all that jazz, is going to continue to be a WIP. Balance in VT2 remained a WIP for many years, while their UI experience only had a few changes not too long ago. But I feel like DT's UI is going to get overhauled more than once.

If I had to condense it all down into one blurb....."While I enjoyed myself a lot, I didn't finish the beta feeling awed or impressed. I'm looking forward to all the content being in, but I wasn't blown away by the beta. There just wasn't enough there, and much of what was there seemed half baked. If gameplay hadn't held up as well as it did, I would have serious reservations about the game."
« Last Edit: October 17, 2022, 12:16:02 pm by nenjin »
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Cautivo del Milagro seamos, Penitente.
Quote from: Viktor Frankl
When we are no longer able to change a situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Quote from: Sindain
Its kinda silly to complain that a friendly NPC isn't a well designed boss fight.
Quote from: Eric Blank
How will I cheese now assholes?
Quote from: MrRoboto75
Always spaghetti, never forghetti
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