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[axiomsofdominion]

...

[Vivalas]

I guess I somehow missed it on 7 december because for some reason google links to an archive version of the website blog and not the home version which has the latest posts, but naval combat is basically confirmed now, which makes me very excited. I remember my first ever semi-successful campaign, there was a very large open lake in the middle I wanted to traverse without having to slowly drive all the way around and it would have been very immersive so now that we have that option in the future (although I guess currently air bridges right now act to a certain similar extent) I'm stoked.

https://www.vrdesigns.net/

[dehimos]

Is there anything like a fantasy version of this game? Shadow Empire is *almost* there for me in a lot of ways. Sure it isn't quite as deep as I'd like and I hate games with cards, same for Star Ruler as this one, but it has little competition in areas it is strong in. Even a mod that does Shadowrun style cyberpunk/urban fantasy mix would be awesome.

I do not know of anything similar, the logistics system does not usually appear in fantasy games or ancient world.

Others that may look similar are:

Deity Empires https://store.steampowered.com/app/889080/Deity_Empires/
Goblin Storm https://store.steampowered.com/app/713840/Goblin_Storm/

[axiomsofdominion]

Is there anything like a fantasy version of this game? Shadow Empire is *almost* there for me in a lot of ways. Sure it isn't quite as deep as I'd like and I hate games with cards, same for Star Ruler as this one, but it has little competition in areas it is strong in. Even a mod that does Shadowrun style cyberpunk/urban fantasy mix would be awesome.

I do not know of anything similar, the logistics system does not usually appear in fantasy games or ancient world.

Others that may look similar are:

Deity Empires https://store.steampowered.com/app/889080/Deity_Empires/
Goblin Storm https://store.steampowered.com/app/713840/Goblin_Storm/

I have Deity Empires but I mostly got it as a policy purchase. Buy indie games that are at least trying to push the strategy/simulation/rpg genres forward even if they are 6/10s.

[Glloyd]

The dev's been working on Decisive Campaigns: Ardennes Offensive for a while, but now that that's out he's back to working on Shadow Empire. Latest blog post is laying the groundwork for some very cool future stuff:

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

That's right, oceans and watery planets, with player controlled navies coming at some point in the future after some AI development.

[a1s]

Incidentally, if you've still not got this game, but want it, it's currently on sale on Steam.

[Mkok]

Finally, he will soon get to improve the AI  The AI being trivially easy to beat is pretty much the only reason there is very little replayability. Looking forward to it.

[axiomsofdominion]

Finally, he will soon get to improve the AI  The AI being trivially easy to beat is pretty much the only reason there is very little replayability. Looking forward to it.

Is it too easy? I have followed the game for a while but not bought it yet. Mainly because making my own game means I rarely have time for fun. Ironic. Been really debating getting it cause of the sale but maybe I should wait.

[EuchreJack]

Finally, he will soon get to improve the AI  The AI being trivially easy to beat is pretty much the only reason there is very little replayability. Looking forward to it.

Is it too easy? I have followed the game for a while but not bought it yet. Mainly because making my own game means I rarely have time for fun. Ironic. Been really debating getting it cause of the sale but maybe I should wait.

It's worth playing if only to explore its game concepts.  And the logistics system is a game in itself.

[Il Palazzo]

It's definitely not easy in terms of complexity. And it can be very challenging to surmount the obstacles the rng (or yourself) can throw at you w/r to world generation/placement. But it can be easy in the sense that once you understand the mechanics well enough, you start to notice certain deficiencies in AI behaviour that can be exploited. It is in fact optimal to exploit them.

E.g. the AI can't properly deal with a contiguous frontline. If it has significant technological advantage, it can pose a threat. Otherwise it will not make and exploit breakthroughs - rather, it'll tend to gradually reposition in response to your actions, which in effect allows you to advance your troops up to and beyond the cities it is trying to defend. So, you see, this isn't a bug you're exploiting that you could justify not doing. It's more like you pretty much have to form a frontline to check the threat from flanking/raiding behaviour, at which point there's little threat left.

Or, another example, the independents (minors, animals, 'barbarians') will not invade their neighbours, unless it's another major power. Which means that once you begin to border an independent province, even with a single hex, they can (and will) decide to pour through that new border into your territory. Similarly, whether alien natives or majors begin to interact with you diplomatically (which often consists of significant/impossible demands and a threat of war) depends on having/not having a border. And since the major difficulty, once the front lines are secured, becomes supplying and reinforcing your ever growing armies, it is optimal for your scouts/raiders/armies to not claim the last line of hexes between whomever you're at war with and the neighbouring provinces so that you don't suddenly have to put another frontline up there. Or when you conquer/diplomatically annex a minor city, and all of their territory changes ownership to your regime, the up-to-this-point stable borders suddenly overflow with all the indie hordes because now it's a fair game apparently. So, you either deal with the unrealistic-looking and frustrating invasions, or you end up with unrealistic-looking and frustrating to create borders.

Having said that, I've had >a lot< of fun learning its various systems, building logistical networks, and even just generating new worlds.

[Salmeuk]

I like this game and the feeling of building towns from the scraps of the apocalypse, designing units from tech and making pushes through enemy territory. I do not enjoy the political system, and the constant need to appease political factions. I understand how this mechanic is supposed to provide internal conflict, you know, danger from within.. but the implementation is the exact kind of busywork that 4x games should be moving away from.

so like, good complexity but I wish it was easier to manage without constant, meaningless event spam

[axiomsofdominion]

It's definitely not easy in terms of complexity. And it can be very challenging to surmount the obstacles the rng (or yourself) can throw at you w/r to world generation/placement. But it can be easy in the sense that once you understand the mechanics well enough, you start to notice certain deficiencies in AI behaviour that can be exploited. It is in fact optimal to exploit them.

E.g. the AI can't properly deal with a contiguous frontline. If it has significant technological advantage, it can pose a threat. Otherwise it will not make and exploit breakthroughs - rather, it'll tend to gradually reposition in response to your actions, which in effect allows you to advance your troops up to and beyond the cities it is trying to defend. So, you see, this isn't a bug you're exploiting that you could justify not doing. It's more like you pretty much have to form a frontline to check the threat from flanking/raiding behaviour, at which point there's little threat left.

Or, another example, the independents (minors, animals, 'barbarians') will not invade their neighbours, unless it's another major power. Which means that once you begin to border an independent province, even with a single hex, they can (and will) decide to pour through that new border into your territory. Similarly, whether alien natives or majors begin to interact with you diplomatically (which often consists of significant/impossible demands and a threat of war) depends on having/not having a border. And since the major difficulty, once the front lines are secured, becomes supplying and reinforcing your ever growing armies, it is optimal for your scouts/raiders/armies to not claim the last line of hexes between whomever you're at war with and the neighbouring provinces so that you don't suddenly have to put another frontline up there. Or when you conquer/diplomatically annex a minor city, and all of their territory changes ownership to your regime, the up-to-this-point stable borders suddenly overflow with all the indie hordes because now it's a fair game apparently. So, you either deal with the unrealistic-looking and frustrating invasions, or you end up with unrealistic-looking and frustrating to create borders.

Having said that, I've had >a lot< of fun learning its various systems, building logistical networks, and even just generating new worlds.

Oh this is good stuff. Things I want to avoid in my own project development. Sounds like the AI is very hacked together.

Shadow Empire is real time yes? Or is the event spam so heavy it even sucks in turn based.

[Il Palazzo]

Oh no, it's turn-based. At its core it's a very traditional hexes and counters wargame. Only in an expansive SF setting.

Myself, I kinda liked the events. I thought they brought some role-playing life to the dry wargaming stuff.

[Mkok]

The game is pretty good, but as said above, the AI fails to pose a challenge currently. It would be much better if it could at least form a battleline. If there was a challenge in the AI doing at least as much as the AI in HOI4 for example (but then again this game is more complex so it is probably harder to get such AI) I think this game would easily make it into one of my favorites.

There are also quite a bit of unique mechanics I have never seen in other games. While they do have its flaws as the game was made by a single developer, and it shows, but they are still pretty interesting. Personally I kinda like the stratagem system, which is basically kind of a card based system where if you want to do something you need a card for it, for example if you want to increase taxes you must have a card to play that increases taxes. It is not perfect, but it feels kinda nice, and if you really want to do something usually it is easy enough to get said card. The political system is unique as well, though I am not a huge fan of the current implementation as you basically have 2 options, either you pick event options to move the political scales in the way you want and ignore role-play completely (as some of the movements feel kinda arbitrary), or you role-play, which imho is more fun, but then your political scale is pretty much balanced which is notoptimal, and slightly breaks immersion if you want to for example roleplay some kind of specific political system. Another interesting part is that there is also a private economy in your nation, where some buildings are  owned and built by private sector, so not everything is state owned, though the way it is implemented currently you cannot roleplay for example a nation where everything is state-controlled or fully private-owned, as you need to have both.

[EuchreJack]

Note: There are actually two AIs.  There is the dumb-as-bricks Quick Turn AI (which isn't that quick, but at least playable) and the Slower Turn AI (which runs so slow the game is unplayable).  So, it could be that the Slower Turn AI might be marginally better, if you can find someone with the patience to see it in action.