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[a1s]

Someone needs to figure out how Paradox does AI. I'm not saying it's good, but they are running like 100 AIs in a real time game. Why does something like Making History need over a minute to do it's turns?

[axiomsofdominion]

Someone needs to figure out how Paradox does AI. I'm not saying it's good, but they are running like 100 AIs in a real time game. Why does something like Making History need over a minute to do it's turns?

We know how they do it. If you read the files it becomes pretty obvious. There is a reason the AI is so quiescent in their games. Paradox AI spends most time doing nothing but you don't know cause you can't see it. They have tons of AIs so compared to a turn based game the map seems active and complex but it is not.

I don't know that a turn based game needs a minute or more typically, especially because they often have few AIs. But the Paradox model is awful.

[Il Palazzo]

But the Paradox model is awful.

It looks pretty and is fun to spend time with. I don't care if it's dumb.

[E. Albright]

Note: There are actually two AIs.  There is the dumb-as-bricks Quick Turn AI (which isn't that quick, but at least playable) and the Slower Turn AI (which runs so slow the game is unplayable).  So, it could be that the Slower Turn AI might be marginally better, if you can find someone with the patience to see it in action.

3, actually. Normal is "Level 0", Slow is "Level 100", and Very Slow is "Level 250". The game I've been picking at for the last 2 months is on the 100 level, and the Major AI still has problems with maintaining a front and pursuing breakthroughs, but it's better than at 0. It doesn't feel as good as it was way back before the multiple settings were added, so I'm inclined to think that'd take 250. 100 doesn't seem dramatically slower than normal to me, but I wanna say 250 did? I don't feel like I have a good sense of what is or is not slow, though. I have a desktop that wasn't top tier but was pretty close 8y ago, but I also tend to play on max-sized worlds, so while I'm guessing slower AI is a bit more reasonable for me than for some, it's probably worse than how a lot of people play the game. I just let the turn run for however long it takes and do something else on the other monitor until it's done.

I probably should just end the current game and start a new one at 250 speed.

[EuchreJack]

So, what does everyone else think of the strategy of splitting off Battlegroups to guard the borders?
I was initially skeptical, but the base unit returns to maximum strength if they have access to sufficient replacements.
My only real problem is that it generally means my border guards are more skilled than my base units.  But since they're a small detachment that has to hold off the enemy, it's probably a good thing that they're experienced.

Note: There are actually two AIs.  There is the dumb-as-bricks Quick Turn AI (which isn't that quick, but at least playable) and the Slower Turn AI (which runs so slow the game is unplayable).  So, it could be that the Slower Turn AI might be marginally better, if you can find someone with the patience to see it in action.

3, actually. Normal is "Level 0", Slow is "Level 100", and Very Slow is "Level 250". The game I've been picking at for the last 2 months is on the 100 level, and the Major AI still has problems with maintaining a front and pursuing breakthroughs, but it's better than at 0. It doesn't feel as good as it was way back before the multiple settings were added, so I'm inclined to think that'd take 250. 100 doesn't seem dramatically slower than normal to me, but I wanna say 250 did? I don't feel like I have a good sense of what is or is not slow, though. I have a desktop that wasn't top tier but was pretty close 8y ago, but I also tend to play on max-sized worlds, so while I'm guessing slower AI is a bit more reasonable for me than for some, it's probably worse than how a lot of people play the game. I just let the turn run for however long it takes and do something else on the other monitor until it's done.

I didn't know there were 3 options.  Eh, I usually prefer the game to go faster.  As I said before, getting your own nation to work correctly is enough of a challenge for me.  If the AI can just put bodies in front of me, it'll slow me down a bit just getting food, ammo, and fuel to the troops.

Game really should be called Logistic Empire.

[E. Albright]

I tend to make custom formations if I want border patrol detachments. Usually a mix of bikes and quads, sometimes with motorized infantry or light tanks. Later on, I might shift to infantry + walkers. That avoids the org penalty for non-GR battlegroups. I can't remember exactly what that is, but I remember there is one, and strenuously avoid it.

Admittedly, since I realized I could manually reinforce militia that get depleted, I tend to just use militia as border patrols and/or bug hunters. They actually feature pretty heavily in my regular offensives too. Being able to update the quality and replace casualties in my militia forces pretty drastically reduced my impetus to make formal detachments, though I'll usually make one or two of the aforementioned dragoon/heavy recon battalions early on and keep them rolling for the whole game.

[Il Palazzo]

^How do you even keep militia relevant into mid game, let alone past that? The militancy penalties for high civ levels and regular troop presence tend to wipe out nearly all reinforcement ability, unless I manage to prop it up with stratagems on time. And they lag terribly with equipment quality.
Maybe elaborate on that manual reinforcement, as I don't think I remember being able to do that.

[E. Albright]

On the orders bar, there's the Transfer/BG button. Open that screen and select either a militia unit from the same zone, or more relevantly, a regular unit from the same SHQ. Not actually sure it even needs to be the same SHQ, TBH. Anyway, transfer the units to the militia unit; once you do this, the troops will be considered militia from whatever zone the militia hails from. If you want to know their TOE limits, that's under the Unit Admin button back on the orders bar. Note that there's a bug where militia buggies are classed as light armor, so you have to use light armor as replacements.

It's easiest to do this at the SHQ b/c then you don't have to worry about dropping the source unit under 3 Power (which isn't permitted unless you transfer the whole unit into the target unit and thus wipe out the source unit). However, that requires you to cycle your militia back from the front manually. I generally have enough log points to do strategic moves for that, though, and it feels worth the trouble to keep my militia strong and relevant for the whole game.

---

I'm kinda proud of my SHQ commander this game. I've had better ones from a raw potential standpoint - she's only cap III - but at turn 126 I don't think I've ever seen quite so overwrought a commander in practice:

Spoiler: Elisa Xenophore, CDR 1SHQ (click to show/hide)

[Il Palazzo]

That sounds like a lot added micro. And what's the benefit over just having regular units? I.e. why raise regulars, and then transfer them to militia, and not just keep the troops in regular units?

[EuchreJack]

Outdated Infantry don't upgrade like other units, so they at least are worth "donating to the militia" instead of just disbanding, if you want to retain use of them without your regular units using obsolete equipment.

[E. Albright]

Generally, I don't raise regular units for this. I just dump a bunch of reinforcements into the SHQ, recall the militia I need to reinforce, reinforce them, and send them on their way. The main advantage is it takes less PP than raising new units. It gives a fair amount of flexibility in my experience - I need a lot of little flanking units to shore up fronts or to surround/herd hostile units/critters, so keeping militia up and then limiting my OHQ to 3-5 formations gives me what I need w/o having a lot of unaffiliated detachments.

EJ, I'm not sure what you mean about obsolete infantry. They directly upgrade rather than going through the "Replace" process armor [or bikes, jetpacks, or quad machineguns, etc.] needs to deal with. If you want to keep them modern, you can - there's no units in your regular forces you can't. You can even do that with GR units as long as you didn't send them to the militia.

[axiomsofdominion]

But the Paradox model is awful.

It looks pretty and is fun to spend time with. I don't care if it's dumb.

The Paradox AI looks pretty? Erm. Can you see the Ai somehow?

[Il Palazzo]

The game. The game looks pretty. 

[axiomsofdominion]

The game. The game looks pretty. 

Okay sure, looks great. Just the line you quoted was about the AI so I didn't understand.

[Mkok]

Paradox AI is terrible, but it is enough to make the games fun and runnable. I reckon anything decent would take too much CPU to be fun with current computers. If I have to wait 10 minutes for a turn to process and there is nothing to do during those 10 minutes I aint playing your game.

As for the AI options in shadow empire, back when there were only 2 options, both of them had the issue with the AI. I think the third option was added as a compromise between those two, so I reckon even the level 250 AI would have this issue. I tested with the level 100 AI and it had the issue, though the game was at least playable with acceptable turn times.