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Author Topic: Magma and its long way  (Read 9050 times)

Quarque

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Re: Magma and its long way
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2020, 02:39:57 am »

I think it's just me, but I like to have a compact overview over my fortress and that means, that I don't want switch to much between z-levels in my fortress.
Setting up hotkeys does help:
- 'H' for the menu
- press your desired hotkey (F1 to F8 or shift-F1 to shift-F8)
- 'z' to set it to zoom to the current location
- 'Esc' to leave menu.

Now you can jump to this location at any time with the chosen hotkey. I couldn't live without them.

Population caps can be changed during the game without any problems that I know of.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2020, 02:49:05 am by Quarque »
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HungThir

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Re: Magma and its long way
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2020, 02:56:45 am »

if i'm not specifically building an above-ground castle, and i plan to do a lot of forging, i often build my whole fortress down near the magma.  i'll dig out a little temporary abode near the surface at embark, to give the dwarves somewhere to live while the miners go exploring, but once they've found the caverns and magma sea, down we go into the deeps
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Sarmatian123

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Re: Magma and its long way
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2020, 04:23:21 am »

One thing I like to know though is, if magma in minecarts evaporates.
No. 1 mine cart keeps 2/7 magma in it for ever.
Quote
do I have to worry about the magma in a minecart to spill out or something with an impulseramp elevator? I get the impression, that a minecart constantly derails on it.
I use iron/steel wheelbarrows for speedy transport of iron/steel mine-carts filled with magma over stairs. Wooden wheelbarrows for bringing empty ones down. No spill this way.
Quote
I think it's just me, but I like to have a compact overview over my fortress and that means, that I don't want switch to much between z-levels in my fortress. I also like aboveground crops for booze diversion... so I often end up to have the biggest part of my fortress close to the surface and I often want to keep it that way.
My fortress had about 5 z levels (2 z levels bellow, 3 above). Almost no walls for rooms. Size is of the bunker is about 50x50 with lots of stairs for easy access between. It works well for 18 booze types + mead.
Quote
Last but not least I have another question. I play with the LNP and adjusted the Pop-max to 100 cause in the most games, I got overwhelmed with all the new migrants and to often didn't know what to do with them. After all, in most cases one dwarf would be enough to fulfill the needs of one industry. So if I have a savegame that started with with 100 pop-max and I change the setting before I play this savegame forward, does this cause any trouble? Also what happens if I rechange the settings back to 100 pop-max?
Changing maximal population up allows new migrants in. When you change it back down, then no new population from migrants. You just need to save and quit. Change in init.txt or d_init.txt for new values and re-load game.

My lava pumping facility looks like this:
Code: [Select]
1st level:
WWOWGW
WLPP+W
WWWWWW
W-wall, L-channeled hole to lava below, P-pump, O-door, +-floor where I dump empty mine-carts from stockpile nearby,G-bridge
2nd level:
WWOWWWWWWWWW
WHPP+++++++W
WWWWWWWWWWWW
W-wall,H-channeled hole above dumped mine-carts, P-pump, O-door, +-floor where magma evaporates (between 7-14 tiles usually)
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Leonidas

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Re: Magma and its long way
« Reply #18 on: June 08, 2020, 02:25:12 pm »

I use a technique similar to Patrik's with the 1x1 magma chamber, except that I get rid of the magma with a second pump. It requires an extra step per cycle, but it also allows the minecart to stay on rails the entire time. I hate it when dwarves carry minecarts.

I'm still trying to wrap my head around Sarmatian's trick of using wheelbarrows to move minecarts. It sounds crazy, but I'm gonna try it.

If you want to move magma with minecarts on a larger scale, you can pack as many of them as you want into a magma chamber, and they'll all come out with 2/7 magma. You can even, in effect, manufacture magma this way, turning a single 7/7 tile of magma into (2 x minecarts) magma.
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Starver

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Re: Magma and its long way
« Reply #19 on: June 08, 2020, 03:20:18 pm »

My designs tend to be vertical.  Surface (and above-surface) dedicated to building sprawl, fortifications and the like, but very little that isn't surface-dependent ('open' grazing, natural orchards, all enclosed/enclosable) or Depot and entry.

Immeditaely subsurface (soil) is farming. Underground crops, plus surface-crops (with 'skylight', cut and recovered once the 'outside' is let in. Between there and the first cavern is initial workshop areas (which continue to be so for farm-related processing) and probably taverns/temples/etc, depending on what room I've got in my footprint and what I dug out as initial storage areas of later items. Trade Goods storage stays here, too. (Main dining area and food store will be hereabouts, but I'll dot some sub-refrectories around at other levels, a smaller "take from" food/drink stockpile in each for my haulers to worry about).

Skip through fo between first and second cavern (I'll have sunk 'exploration stairwells to discover the cavern(s), and chosen a route that misses entirely for cavern-passing routes) and that's generally where I find the rick layer I like to dig my bedrooms out of. If it's a nice big clump of marble-layers, that's usually it. Over several layers of this I spread down and out to dig (spaces for) individual rooms and get valuable rock (either literally, or to be my 'signature' surface construction material for my fort, to be passed upwards to a handy block-maker) as a side-effect, on the basis that my expansions do the "disturbing sleep" already so the quarrying side-effect is basically on a free pass in this respect.

Interesting other rocks (especially my signature magma safe rock, when I decide upon it) get similar mini-expanzions outwards in layers where found, to be given a number of mason/mechanic workshops set up dedicated to that localised material, whether granite or olivine or whatever.

Usually before this has become too mature, though, my explorations have found/sufficiently mapped from ceiling breakthroughs (resealed until needed) all three regular caverns and the fourth (magma sea). The latter likely due to seeing its intrusion up through one or other cavern.  Working on that discovery (as cautious about the Hot Rock as the Wet Rock below cavern-pools, but in both cases determined to get cancellation spam over and done with ASAP) I decide where my magma-workshop layer will be and its extensive layout, to side-tap into the source to slowly flood a winding magmaduct (or several) that pass under the predug workshops in just the right way. Ditto with cavern-water, I'll design a side-tapping cistern into some underground lake (though there are different issues, meaning I can't eventually just fill it, albeit quicker, and close the strategic floodgate like I do with the magma one).

Sometimes this means I actually have my magma-source half way up my stack! Enough for me never to worry too much about moving it to a 'handier' location - I just take the hit when it is only at the very(-nearly) bottom of my bottommost staircase.  Though I know it doesn't quite work this way, I rationalise that whatever ores(/’coal’/flux) I send down the stack to the magmaworkshop stockpiles is using far less effort than if I send it up; smelted bars stay in the same area for further use or intermediate alloying and finished metal goods come up from the depths in an easier fashion anyway (whether hauled by my haulers or collected by their new owner/claimer).

Which is just my choice of elegence in solution, not actually better than others' but it works for me.


And this is on worlds I generate with increased space between cavern layers, from default. It makes my quest for magma less easy, but gives me a number of solid layers (uninterupted by the neighbouring cavern layers, "secret tunnels" between them notwithstanding) to set up the accomodation bulge/etc.
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DrCyano

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Re: Magma and its long way
« Reply #20 on: June 09, 2020, 02:44:38 am »

 I just make a really tall staircase down and don't worry about the inefficiency. It's not that bad with a few well placed stockpiles and you can upgrade or pump lava later if you want.
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A mad scientist necromancer, a peasant with a dream, a secret message inscribed on a gem, a giant bridge.
Come witness the Saga of the Puzzling Sea!
A documented Dwarf Fortress v0.47.xx game combining Fort Mode and Adventure Mode.

Leonidas

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Re: Magma and its long way
« Reply #21 on: June 09, 2020, 02:48:15 am »

I just make a really tall staircase down and don't worry about the inefficiency. It's not that bad with a few well placed stockpiles and you can upgrade or pump lava later if you want.
If there's combat on those stairs and one of your dwarves loses consciousness, he'll fall all the way to the bottom---unless you've installed lots of hatches. I did many forts with long staircases. Ramps are better if you find a good design.
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Starver

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Re: Magma and its long way
« Reply #22 on: June 09, 2020, 07:35:25 am »

(If there's combat inside my fort, I've done something else wrong. ;) )
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Magma and its long way
« Reply #23 on: June 09, 2020, 11:29:57 am »

(If there's combat inside my fort, I've done something else wrong. ;) )
Well, if never letting any visitors in is your definition of doing it right, then you only have to avoid tantrumers and bar fights...

Having said that, I don't think I've had any staircase casualties in my years of play, so I don't bother with hatches (especially since there is a bazillion more urgent things that have to be produced).
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DrCyano

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Re: Magma and its long way
« Reply #24 on: June 09, 2020, 04:16:54 pm »

I just make a really tall staircase down and don't worry about the inefficiency. It's not that bad with a few well placed stockpiles and you can upgrade or pump lava later if you want.
If there's combat on those stairs and one of your dwarves loses consciousness, he'll fall all the way to the bottom---unless you've installed lots of hatches. I did many forts with long staircases. Ramps are better if you find a good design.

It's safer than my old way of doing it: making a 6x6 open shaft from the surface all the way down to the lava (to prevent cave adaptation) with stairs in the corners.  :P
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A mad scientist necromancer, a peasant with a dream, a secret message inscribed on a gem, a giant bridge.
Come witness the Saga of the Puzzling Sea!
A documented Dwarf Fortress v0.47.xx game combining Fort Mode and Adventure Mode.

Fleeting Frames

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Re: Magma and its long way
« Reply #25 on: June 14, 2020, 06:18:56 pm »

@PatrikLundell: Might be of interest: copper minecarts are fine for hauling magma with the dipping method (2-tile trench of accelerating and non-accelerating ramp, with leadin having another accelerating ramp is an example of simple design) as magma-holding carts only reach half the heat of magma.

Starver

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Re: Magma and its long way
« Reply #26 on: June 14, 2020, 06:47:09 pm »

Reminds me of the tale told (IRL) of the problem they had in getting rid of the slag in a steelworks, some time ago.

Some melting shop was, for some reason, unable to use the usual method of removing the bulk quickly enough, and the smart young kids straight out of Technical College/etc couldn't work it out, but one of the old hands piped upon.

"Ah knows 'ow t' doit. Whatya do is to use a load o' woodin wagins. Tha'll see it works reet good for thee..."

Wooden wagons? They'd just burn, wouldn't they? I mean, molten slag fresh from the blast furnace..?

"Durn't thee worry, lads. Just use woodin wagins, tha'll 'ave no problem."

Well, there's the old trick of boiling water on an open campfire in a container made of tree-bark, avers one, probably having been in the Scouts once or something. So maybe there's something to it. Heat contacting wood, maybe it does something like suddenly outgas all over the surface, self-insulating the rest of the wood from the extreme heat and giving time to cart the slag to where it needs to be tipped out.

So they tried it. They got wooden wagons right up to where they'd be tipping the slag out, and poured.

And, whadya know? It immediately burnt the wagons to a crisp.

This is actually a true tale, in that it is a tale that was told to me by an actual steelworks employee, my father, many many years ago. Beyond that, I cannot say.
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Fleeting Frames

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Re: Magma and its long way
« Reply #27 on: June 15, 2020, 05:03:46 am »

In this case, copper minecarts have actually been tested and shown not to melt, though :P (unless you leave them in the trench due some reason (like hitting fire imp inside it). In that case, they conveniently self-dispose without you needing to worry about how to remove them from it)

PatrikLundell

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Re: Magma and its long way
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2020, 12:24:39 pm »

In this case, copper minecarts have actually been tested and shown not to melt, though :P (unless you leave them in the trench due some reason (like hitting fire imp inside it). In that case, they conveniently self-dispose without you needing to worry about how to remove them from it)
I just tried a copper minecart with my favored screw pump filling method, and as far as I can see the cart is completely unharmed after the magma drained away through the grate. Definitely useful to know.
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DerSchlund

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Re: Magma and its long way
« Reply #29 on: June 22, 2020, 02:54:16 am »

Thanks again for all the input.
I recently started a new fortress with the intend do explore the Ceramic and Glass industry a bit more. The Fortress doing finde at his point (year 3) and I tried to bring magma up to z lvl 120 or so. The elevator is digged, the tracks are carves, minecards are filled... the testrun will follow in a couple of days. I keep you guys up to date.

Greetings
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