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[Lobster1071]

So I'm a new player to Dwarf Fortress.  Absolutely loving the game, and at the same time, it's driving me crazy with menu navigation and how to navigate around little intricacies (and bugs).  Maybe if I understand this little issue better, I will understand the relationships between stockpiles and workshops.


I'll type this out step by step, and maybe someone will tell me if this is working as intended, or I am doing something incorrectly.  I'm simply making Pig Iron into Steel.

I create a Pig Iron stockpile (SP).
A Smelter makes Pig Iron. 
If I don't set the SP to take from the Smelter, the Pig Iron seems to sit on the Smelter floor forever.
Fine, I set the SP to take from the Smelter, and now the dwarves come and place the Pig Iron in the SP.
Now I want to make Steel.
The Smelter has the "Make steel bars" disabled because is says I don't have "Pig Iron bars" (in red).  Coal, Iron and Flux SPs are all linked to the Smelter, so those appear fine (in white).
So...I have to switch the Pig Iron SP from Take to Give to the Smelter, THEN, I can make Steel Bars fine.

I can't set a SP to both take AND give to a workshop (the Smelter), so what's the workaround to this?  Multiple Smelters, then setting the SP to take from one and give to the other?  Or multiple Pig Iron SPs?

The thing that drives me the most crazy is that the Pig Iron SP is set to take from anywhere.  I mean, "a: Will Take from Anywhere" is being displayed in the Pig Iron SP, and yet no one will bring the Pig Iron to the SP unless I specifically set the SP to take from the workshop.  The SP should take the Pig Iron being created without having to link to the Smelter, correct?

This seems to happen with nearly anything I'm doing.  Even threads from a Farmers Workshop.  I set up a Thread SP next to a Farmers Workshop to "take from anywhere", yet with all the Rope Reeds/Pig Tails that I process, the threads will not go into the SP unless I link it to the workshop (same with seeds that are created from the process with a seed SP).  Then, I can't make them into cloth unless the Loom is linked to the thread SP.  Does a workshop always need to be linked to a SP?

It just seems like I'm not understanding why "take from anywhere" on stockpiles doesn't seem to work, or I'm doing something completely wrong.

(I'm using the latest Starter Pack (0.47.04) if that info needs to be given).

Thanks!

[Afghani84]

First of all, welcome to the community! Going crazy is part of the journey...

I use the same starter pack and don't have issues with hauling jobs being done. All my SP are set to "take from anywhere", so this shouldn't be the main reason your Pig Iron isn't stored properly.

I suspect that you have all hauling labors on all your dwarves activated and a lot of hauling activity or other job ongoing. How many idlers do you usually have? If they are close to zero, your dwarves may be too busy to haul that iron.

Try to use Dwarf Therapist (you find it under Utilities in your starter pack) and disable all but stone hauling for some dwarves and see if that helps. It might further help to forbid some stones marked for hauling that could otherwise be selected instead of the ore you want.

[PatrikLundell]

Be very careful with stockpile links, as it's a very powerful tool for screwing up (a bit like coding in C), as it's very easy to get set things up incorrectly.
Your original problem was probably that your haulers were too busy hauling other stuff to get to the pig iron. While shuffling your hauler workforce around might help for that issue, you're probably getting issues elsewhere, so you really should try to figure out if you're doing hauling you don't really need to perform.

When it comes to pig iron in particular, it really only has two uses: as a mood material (you should forbid a few bars of it in case some mooding dorfs decides they want that specific metal), and as input for steel production. The most efficient thing you can do is actually not to have any stockpile at all for pig iron (or, if you're using minecart quantum stockpiles, remove pig iron from the feeder stockpile once you've got your mood supply in place). You'd typically produce one bar of pig iron and then use that bar as input for the production of steel, so if the bar is already present at the smelter the furnace operator doesn't have to go fetch it (after a hauler removed it, with it marked as involved in a task and thus unavailable while waiting for the hauler). Clutter in workshops only starts to affect things once there are a lot of items, so a single bar that's created and then immediately used won't cause an issue (unless you've got a tidiness OCD, but then efficiency is way down on the list).

Unfortunately, the idler count ceased to provide any useful feedback when the new needs system was introduced, as dorfs engaged in regular prayer and socializing activities are not considered idle by the game, but they're actually idle from a work availability perspective.

Take from anywhere should work (there are some fat fingering that can cause issues sometimes). It not appearing to work is probably because of hauling prioritization, not the setup, as mentioned. Take from links is exclusive for the workshop, i.e. if there's any stockpile linked to give to that workshop all its inputs have to come from linked stockpiles (a common mistake is to link the leaves/fruit stockpile to a still, and forget to link a source of barrels/large pots to it), but the stockpiles giving via links are not exclusive: they'll give to anyone anyway (so you can't protect precious resources that way).

In general, you should only use stockpile links when you want to enforce restrictions.

[Urist9876]

To give and take from a stockpile you would need multiple workshops. For making steel, this is not efficient.

Often I just set pig iron and steel on repeat in the same workshop.

Food needs a stockpile. Meat and fish will rot when left in the butcher workshop or fishery. Prepared meals will rot when left at the kitchen. Goblets are best not stored on any stockpile.

All other stockpiles are best only used to get goods closer to their final destination, if needed. It is perfectly reasonable to create a stockpile underground to unload your wagon and remove it once all goods are safe.

An example use case for linked stockpiles would be if you open up a cavern layer with lots of cave spider silk. Hauling webs all the way up takes a lot of time. I disable automatic collection of webs (in menu o-rders W-orksops), build a loom close to the cavern, set profile to low skilled weavers and put collection of webs on repeat there.

Next I'd link it to a stockpile that feeds another loom for weaving. This loom is often many z-levels higher. Thread and cloth hardly clutter workshops. Often it is better to not use stockpiles for those. However if you see a lot of dwarves hauling light items long distances, linked stockpiles can help. Stockpiled items will be placed in bins.

You can also link stockpiles. Be sure to set the receiving stockpile to accept from links only to avoid unnecessary hauling. With stockpile problems also check if you didn't used this setting by accident. Pressing q-a to set a new workshop job while accidently selecting a stockpile makes messing up easy.

Bins are a mixed blessing. They allow for more efficient hauling, but the items in the bin are unavailable for other jobs. This could for example disrupt melting or weaving of threads. Problem goes away once you have several bins with materials available.

If you get job cancellations for items not being present, this is often the cause. If you not going to fill several bins, disable bins altogether from the stockpile.

[anewaname]

...
Does a workshop always need to be linked to a SP?

It does not.

If a workshop is linked to give to a stockpile, it will not give to any non-linked stockpiles.
If a workshop is linked to receive from a stockpile, it will not receive from any non-linked stockpiles.

PatrikLundell posted "In general, you should only use stockpile links when you want to enforce restrictions." This is good advice.

[Sarmatian123]

Take a note, this is about an advanced solution and non-beginner mechanics.

For automating things you need extra workshops. Always. Unavoidable.Like to brew 17 alcohol types, you need 17 stills and 17 ingredients stockpiles.

You could fix your hauling issue by creating 10 4x1 stone fetching stockpiles with 3 wheelbarrows assigned to each. Then have 1 mine-cart with assigned "h" trade route to fetch all those stones from those 10 stockpiles and drop it on 1 1x1 quantum stockpile. I usually have 3 different quantum stockpiles for stones. Economic, flux and normal.

To a beginner I would suggest checking DF-wiki on a quantum stockpile topic, as it should have info about creating hauling routes for stops.

Stops are built from construction menu, b-C-s (?) key command, if I remember correctly. Mine-carts are assigned to stops from h-hauling menu.

Good luck!

[Lobster1071]

Thanks for all the replies and helpful information.  Lots of good tips.

I think I have two issues that you all shed some light on.  One is that my Smelters are already linked to other SPs, like my coal, flux, etc.  So I guess that's why the steel bars are disabled, even though I had plenty of Pig Iron.  If I have links for the Smelters already, I guess it wouldn't "take from anywhere", and I would have to manually link the Smelters to the Pig Iron SP.  The answer would be to use links very sparingly as suggested.

The other issue is that all of my dwarves are all constantly busy, yes. My current fortress has about 150 in it, and I generally have only a few idle.  Many times the idle numbers are in the single digits.  Many of them are praying because I built a lot of temples to separate gods.  One general temple for everyone just doesn't seem to make them happy.  Many others are doing all hauling, working, and building duties.  I do use Dwarf Therapist, couldn't live without it I don't think, and most dwarves are set to all hauling duties (all the way right on the Labors tab).  I thought idle dwarves were unhappy dwarves, so I like to keep them all busy.  Maybe I should reevaluate that game plan. 

Yes, bins are a blessing and a curse.  I have been reading about the bugs they sometimes create, especially with beekeeping, which I think I finally have all worked out.

I'm aware of the fat fingers issue, and always try to check that I didn't switch something on/off that shouldn't be because I pressed a wrong key somewhere.  Especially in the (o) general orders section, or when setting up stockpiles (like keeping Animals accidentally turned on...grrr).

Urist, why did you suggest gobblets not be stored in a stockpile?  I don't seem to have a major problem with that.  In my dining room, I have them mixed in with my food, and the dwarves seem to use them for the most part.  I also created my first tavern, and they seem to be using them there with a separate gobblet stockpile.  I do get a few that get disgruntled that they are drinking without a gobblet for some reason, but I don't think it's that many.  If you don't use a stockpile for them, how do you handle them?

Thanks again for everyone's input.  I don't know how this game slipped under my radar for so long, because this is right up my alley.  These ASCII type games (although I'm using the Spacefox graphics), not much in the way of graphics, and you can let your imagination run wild.  Coming from games like Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, this game is similar with about 1000 layers added to it.  When I first started about a month ago, I tried the game without the starter pack.  While still fun without it, Dwarf Therapist I think gives you the information and control that the game should, without making it a cheating tool.  This is why I don't use quantum stockpiles really.  Although I have used them to try them out, it kind of breaks the immersion for me, and I don't think it was the way the game was intended. Having 500 stone piled up on one square just doesn't seem "real" to me.  Just my opinion.  I only use them sparingly, like clearing out stone from an area to make it "neat" looking, or maybe with mine carts, which I've tried, by having the Stop dump items onto one stockpile square, but even then doesn't seem right.

Anyway, I just broke through a cavern below, and I set up some large rooms to start growing some indoor grass and moss for grazing.  Have to get my animals inside!  Lots of work to be done.  Happy dwarfing everyone!

[PatrikLundell]

Why not to have mug stockpiles? Well, it generates needless hauling jobs to bring them back to the stockpile, only for dorfs to carry them batch to the barrel they want to drink from, they take up stockpile space in a combined drinks and mug stockpile, and while tasked by a (low priority) hauling jog they're unavailable for being used for drinking.
(For a similar reason, there's not much point in stockpiling toys). Stockpiling mugs is probably not a major issue, just pointless, wasteful, and leading to occasional drink without a mug thoughts.

To brew 17 types of booze you don't absolutely need 17 different stills. Using vanilla you'll get all types by having enough brewing power to brew everything that can be brewed, you can manually shift stockpile links around, and probably use other tricks as well. Using DFHack you can write a script that generates brewing orders for specific types of booze based on criteria your script is capable of evaluating.

[anewaname]

My current fortress has about 150 in it, and I generally have only a few idle.  Many times the idle numbers are in the single digits.

Keep in mind that some of those jobs are "I have nothing to do, I going to hang out in the tavern" jobs. (or pray, or do combat drills) This means they can be interrupted, and when you cut down some trees and a dozen new hauling jobs are created, you will see dwarfs flood out of the tavern.

New to DF? Build some coffins now!

[martinuzz]

(For a similar reason, there's not much point in stockpiling toys)

Except to use it as a crude tool to guide your children to a location / through a danger room.

[Starver]

The other issue is that all of my dwarves are all constantly busy, yes. My current fortress has about 150 in it, and I generally have only a few idle.  Many times the idle numbers are in the single digits.

Under my playstyle, that tells me I'm doing something wrong, having an idlers at all (except for the odd-blip as a job is completed and another job is taken up). But then the skill (or at least fiddling with Dwarf Therapist to micromanage things) is making sure that of the many, many pending jobs the ones that are urgent are getting done straight away and the ones that are only fairly urgent aren't slowing them down.

(Non-job jobs, like socialising and all the other new stuff that's neither field-based, workshop-based, rock-face nor getting everything closer to where it should be absorbs far too much of my workforce.)

But that's more true for me than many others, and maybe you're nowhere near the frenetic micromanegement of trying to direct the digging of a flushable well-cistern (and rubble-clearing, rock-smoothing, flow-control structures and lever-linking) whilst excavating the accomodation complex (rubble, smooth, furniture creation/installation), the magmaworksop level (...), digging the surface defence ditches and placing the access bridging across them, etc. Then realise it's not long until the first caravan and the Depot hasn't even been built yet and hardly any trade goods are currently available anyway.

But you can be perfectionist on a completely different set of obsessions than for me. And idlers might be perfectly valid for you and others.

[PatrikLundell]

(For a similar reason, there's not much point in stockpiling toys)

Except to use it as a crude tool to guide your children to a location / through a danger room.

Note that kids can and will get toys at the location where the toy is and then go to the location where they want to play, which typically is the location where they decided they wanted to play (e.g. on top of the corpse whose underwear the kid just equipped). However, I agree that you ought to be able to use stockpiling to get kids to path to said stockpile, if you've got a need for that.

@Starver: Before the needs rework, idlers was a sign of the fortress being run inefficiently, but now the buggers actually need time off to (often fail miserably) cater to their needs to socialize, pray, read, etc.

[Sarmatian123]

To brew 17 types of booze you don't absolutely need 17 different stills. Using vanilla you'll get all types by having enough brewing power to brew everything that can be brewed, you can manually shift stockpile links around, and probably use other tricks as well. Using DFHack you can write a script that generates brewing orders for specific types of booze based on criteria your script is capable of evaluating.

The main issue is, you can't tell manager to check for 10 barrels and make a brew job, when there is less then 10 barrels of one type of alcohol. My detection is on 60 units of one type of alcohol. This could be 2 barrels of this alcohol as well as 30. My drinking stockpile is size 11x23 and sometimes it is 60% full and some times it is 95% full.

Your idea to brew all ingredients from ingredient stockpile would ruin automation of farming of such ingredient. Ingredient stockpile acts as a limit for stored ingredients from harvest. The rest of harvest, after it gets wittered, ends in refuse for speedy decomposition.

So basically I need 1 3x5 field for farming an ingredient, 1 1x3 stockpile for seeds by such a field and of course 2x6 stockpile for ingredients (holds around 1000 units) and of course a still, plus a quern or/and a farmer's workshop for other automated processes on such ingredient. Flour is another automated process, which I use in the only automated by me cooking process of royal jelly. Those jugs got to be emptied somehow.

[Starver]

@Starver: Before the needs rework, idlers was a sign of the fortress being run inefficiently, but now the buggers actually need time off to (often fail miserably) cater to their needs to socialize, pray, read, etc.

Yeah, I've adapted to the newer "non-jobs jobs", but a) I know I don't give them as much leeway on that as I should, b) they count as non-Idle for me, much as sleep has always been 'necessary work' however troublesome it is when "my Architect has been given nothing else to do for a while, and I need that Depot built now", etc...

[PatrikLundell]

@Sarmatian123:
The Manager has a lot of limitation, so if you insist on using it you will of course be restricted to the things it can handle. Also if you state "absolutely need" you should expect people to point out when that's not the case, including cases that may not be practical (happens a lot when said cases involve magma).