Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[mattmoss]

So, yesterday I decided I needed to progress my DF education and learn about screw pumps, waterwheels, and the like.  I think it was because I saw markavian's pumping out of the ocean that inspired me.

Generated a new world that had several volcanos pop up, including plenty of surrounding vents. I found a really nice landing spot, in a river valley loaded with trees, and a lava vent (hidden initially, but pretty darn close to the river). Also has a two-level aquifer, which is another challenge I wanted to test out.

While I was trying to figure out how screw pumps would work to dig out an aquifer (and not flood my fortress at the same time), I wondered if there might not be another way down. I had seen discussions about lava and water forming obsidian...

That's when I started the "Obsidian Core" plan. Drop a bunch of water in the center of the vent to make a solid platform. Dig a channel and drop more water. Keep doing this until you have a big floating cylinder of obsidian in the middle of the lava vent.

So I started it. Not the prettiest operation -- again, I was still learning how all the machinery works, so my setup is probably far from efficient, and I had to build, deconstruct and rebuild several times. In the end, I don't think this would be effective... I don't see how you could branch out to the sides once you get past the aquifer... not without turning the whole thing into obsidian, which might work but is less cool.

I dunno. Maybe others more experienced will have better ideas. Anyway, I recorded a movie forming the first layer... sort of an Obsidian Island floating on lava. The movie doesn't show it, but I was able to dig down from above and actually put dwarfs on the rock without need for a bridge.

Obsidian Island

[PTTG??]

That sounds like a fortress! An obsidian core surrounded by lava, self-contained and absolutely free from invasion! Even once sappers got in and tried to dig in the sidewalls...

[Fenrir]

So stone can float in the lava?

[mattmoss]

quote:Originally posted by PTTG??:
<STRONG>That sounds like a fortress! An obsidian core surrounded by lava, self-contained and absolutely free from invasion! Even once sappers got in and tried to dig in the sidewalls...</STRONG>

Well, it would be a very narrow fortress.  =)  Perhaps a grand entrance, a mighty circular stairwell descending down through laval.  (Is it me, or is it warm in here?)

I'm still not certain how you could exit the lava further down... maybe some system of grates and levers and what not. Still pretty tricksy.

[ February 03, 2008: Message edited by: mattmoss ]

[mattmoss]

quote:Originally posted by Fenrir:
<STRONG>So stone can float in the lava?</STRONG>

Apparently... As I mentioned, I was able to dig down from above through one of the few obsidian columns formed. I dug down one level and dug it out (carefully, so as not to let lava in at a corner).

Had I dug out a channel, I would have seen lava beneath my feet. Perhaps having a grate system on the floor, and pouring in a lot more water could have extended the obsidian mass further down.

But it was essentially a floating obsidian mass, yes.

[mattmoss]

quote:Originally posted by mattmoss:
<STRONG>

Apparently... As I mentioned, I was able to dig down from above through one of the few obsidian columns formed. I dug down one level and dug it out (carefully, so as not to let lava in at a corner).

Had I dug out a channel, I would have seen lava beneath my feet. Perhaps having a grate system on the floor, and pouring in a lot more water could have extended the obsidian mass further down.

But it was essentially a floating obsidian mass, yes.</STRONG>

To clarify, I tried this again, using the aquifer rather than the river to provide the water. (Result: much easier and quicker.) When I looked more carefully, it appears that the island is supported by a very tall column...

Almost? The column goes down through all but the bottom-most couple layers of magma. Not sure whether to classify it as floating or supported. It's cool, at least.

[Puzzlemaker]

quote:Originally posted by mattmoss:
<STRONG>

To clarify, I tried this again, using the aquifer rather than the river to provide the water. (Result: much easier and quicker.) When I looked more carefully, it appears that the island is supported by a very tall column...

Almost? The column goes down through all but the bottom-most couple layers of magma. Not sure whether to classify it as floating or supported. It's cool, at least.</STRONG>

I think what happens is, the water hits the magma, makes a block.  The block falls, and another block is created instantly.  Repeat until you have a column.

[YojimboUsaka]

IF what you say is true...that the blocks are sinking and forming column from the bottom up you might be able to create a side passage by pouring water in small portions on the side and letting it sink.  Tunnel to the bottom and go through the blocks that have sunk.

Yoj

[Fenrir]

quote:Originally posted by Puzzlemaker:
<STRONG>I think what happens is, the water hits the magma, makes a block.  The block falls, and another block is created instantly.  Repeat until you have a column.</STRONG>

Wouldn't you get spammed with "cavern collapsing" messages if that were true?

[Puzzlemaker]

quote:Originally posted by Fenrir:
<STRONG>
Wouldn't you get spammed with "cavern collapsing" messages if that were true?</STRONG>

Hmm, I didn't think about that.  Someone should try this and frame by frame it to see where the column comes from, because thats the only reason I could think of.

Maybe stuff made from water can't "Collapse"?

[mattmoss]

quote:Originally posted by Fenrir:
<STRONG>
Wouldn't you get spammed with "cavern collapsing" messages if that were true?</STRONG>

I got a lot of those messages while I was doing these tests. If you play back the movie I linked above, you'll see that when the island starts forming, there is a lot of jumping back and forth between Z-levels.  I wanted to keep the camera up near the surface as much as possible, but the "cavern collapsing" messages kept going down a couple levels.

[mattmoss]

quote:Originally posted by Puzzlemaker:
<STRONG>

Hmm, I didn't think about that.  Someone should try this and frame by frame it to see where the column comes from, because thats the only reason I could think of.

Maybe stuff made from water can't "Collapse"?</STRONG>

I have a save of the world, both with and without a starting party, if anyone else wants to try this particular region. (Not that this particular region is necessary, but I can show you exactly where to start and where to dig to reveal the vent. It's a neat little region anyway.)

[Puzzlemaker]

If you got a lot of collapse messages, then my theory is prolly correct.  Still, thats a pretty neat trick.

[Zemat]

What would be interesting now is doing the reverse. Pouring magma over a lake or ocean and see if you can create an artificial obsidian island in it. Maybe it would be faster than the traditional pumping methods as you say.

[ February 04, 2008: Message edited by: Zemat ]

[mattmoss]

quote:Originally posted by Zemat:
<STRONG>What would be interesting now is doing the reverse. Pouring magma over a lake or ocean and see if you can create an artificial obsidian island in it. Maybe it would be faster than the traditional pumping methods as you say.
</STRONG>

Would magma melt a screw pump?

I could try channeling the magma over to the river, see if I can make an obsidian dam,...  Or! One of the reasons I started playing with this was to find another method through the aquifer. If I can move just enough magma into the aquifer layers....  magma floodgates, do they exist?  Then getting down through the aquifer would be a piece of cake...

Well, a different kind of cake. Pumping out the aquifer long enough to put up walls is like.... angel food. Pour hot magma and making rock to dig through is dark chocolate. Or something like that.