Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Defensive kobra]

as the title suggests, when building outdoors, how do i make a building with a roof on top? i cannot seem to figure that out for whatever reason, it is such an simple thing and a thing most players will have to do, and yet there is no tutorial that mentions how to do it

[mightymushroom]

What you want to do is construct floor on the z-level above the area you want to enclose. The area underneath the floor will change to "inside" (even if there aren't any walls!)

Building a bridge instead of flooring also works, it uses less material than individual floor tiles but can't have anything else installed on top of it if you ever feel like expanding upward.

[Bumber]

Build temporary stairs on the outside of the building if you don't want roof access.

[Urist9876]

Build an up stair. One z-level above build an up/down stair or down stair, depending on future plans.

Once the stairs are completed you can build a floor one z level above that will function as roof.

If you are pro you use ramps. Downside is they do not work without adjacent wall. Advantage is that you can start building roof after one building step, instead of waiting for the down stairs to finish.

I'm not pro, using stairs most of the time ;-)

[callisto8413]

Make sure to put floor "tiles" on the top of the walls also - otherwise there is a gap between "roof" and wall.  Creatures and enemies will slip in the gap.

You want this:

----------
l           l


Not this:

 -------
l         l

It will keep the sun and rain out.  But not living creatures.  Also, the same with holes caused by trees collapsing.  You need to cover the hole and the edge of the hole.


---
l  l

[Starver]

(It's perhaps easier to use the [code] tag, or <pre> (which allows color-tagging) to show ASCII-plans, both side view and top-down. Maybe force [font=courier] if you can also ensure by the <pre> that it does not collapse whitespace or avoid it doing so by doing solid blocks of non-space characters. Though not all browsers do that perfectly, it works better than presuming your proportional font adjustments to spacing apply the same to everyone else.)

I like doing multi-level walls around areas (high enough to enclose resource-trees) with a retractable roof that is built entirely from within (once completely enclosed) and leaves no pesky entryways to fliers or climbers. And that was before there were (deliberate) flying or climbing hostiles to worry about.

To cap off the top I tended to do it with bridge-roofing accessed from two points, under two different sections of retracting bridge (needs a built lever for each separate retraction mode you eventually need, and a quantum-connection pair for each unit needing retraction). At the last level of internal wall I build a ramp, instead of wall, on an edge (not corner!) tile, which might be where any internal stairway access meets the wall or just anywhere the internal wall-hugging 'gantry' is there, for the express purpose of patrolling archers[1], or however you are currently with the entire level eventually floored in a stack-of-rooms tower design.

These two (or more!) ramps give access to the final wall-tops. Now consider how you're going to bridge-cover the gap. It must have separate bridges to cover each ramp (of the two key ones, regardless of others you temporarily have), the maximum size is 10x10 and all bridges must be buildable from non-bridge support. Anything up to 20x20 plan (including walls, i.e 18x18 internal space) can be done with at most four bridges anchored on each corner and half way along each wall (any side less than 10 can have two corners, two complete sides and as far as you want/can along the adjacent sides, and if it’s >20 in the other direction you can fill across between opposite sides without further need to worry). And if you have internal walls in the level below the roof then you probably can handle it as several smaller sections anyway. (You don't need to, nor necessarily should you, tie the roof-bridges to the support-walls exactly, just treat those wall-tops as potential roof-gantry flooring (below), gratis, in your subsequent planning.)

If you're doing anything of 21x21 or more, without any other inte, you'll need at least 3x3, and the centre one would need support. Optimally, in each direction, (Walltop-supported Bridge)(Bridge)(Floor Gantry)(Bridge)(Bridge supported by Walltop) would work, with the Walltop being below the edge and the Floor Gantry being constructed (or naturally arising from internal Walltops up from the innards of the level below) from external walltops all the way across the given perpendicular.  You could also have an 'island' in the middle, but then it needs its own access anyway.

(In a 3x3 bridges of <=10 on each side, you could go (Bridge)(Bridge)(Gantry)(Bridge), if you don't mind assymetry, or are copying the design at each corner of the map anyway so you get your symmetry when considering them as a group! )

Anyway, get your gantries built between your walltop edges. Then lay down all bridges but one, that one being one that overlaps a chosen wall-ramp access to let you build the others. Once the bridge(s) covering the other ramp(s) are built (make sure they're first in the job queue by holding back on others?) and blocking them, connect the lever you built in your Master Lever Control Room/wherever with this(/these) blocking roof(s) and - making sure there's no construction-dorfs likely to be wandering over them on the way to other bits - pull the lever. Now you can safely a) unbuild the first access ramp in order to rebuild as a wall, and b) set the roof-bridge to be designed and built over the gap you left for it.

Any further roof-bridges that need to be lever linked (including this last, if that's your wish/requirement) can be done with the currently unblocking bridge open and then when you're finally done on the rooftop and nobody is conducting any further business up there, pull the lever(s) to unretract the retracted bridge(s) and rereplace the last ramp(s), now blocked from above, with the required wall(s) and you're sealed beneath a roof. Regaining access, from inside, needs retraction of at least the one bridge and deconstruct a handily revealed wall to (re)replace with ramp again. I've been known to station vampires up there, in the old days before climbing was a thing, just because I could set them to patrol around and maybe spot something whilst doing so, without caring for their needs or even their fate.



Or build a stairwell up in the middle into a 1z-higher 3x3 walled chamber with side-access to roof-level (set a ramp up its outside to roof that over with 3x3 flooring at the z+1 from the main roof) and use it as access to climb out and seal the main roof area properly in any form you see fit to (as long as it covers all your edge walltops). Either wall up the gap you used to access the roof or make it a raising bridge for handy togglable portal, and you can reverse this particular seal the next time you want to access to the level (a new phase of expansion, making it even higher?)...




[1] If including Fortifications around a wall edge, I find it better to build as Wall then carve the wall into Fortification. This preserves the wall-top, whereas building as Fortification from scratch does not give an under-built floor on the level above, complicating some forms of further building upward.

[Sarmatian123]

I go on outside with 2 up stairs on 1st z-level, both spread same distance from the entrance. 1-2 tiles usually so I can put 1-2 cage traps on each side. It works miracles on Keas, as I also build on 2nd z-level roof over entrance. Then up/down stairs on others z-levels and above roof with downstairs.

Unless it is temporary 1 z-level shelter, then I just build 2 ramps and just floor, as roof.

Building roof is complicated and time consuming matter. First you need to build floor, so you can access all roof tiles. After building walls on walls (except the line where your stairs access the roof construction area), you deal with floor tiles. You deconstruct every 2nd tile in one furthest from stairs line. When all tiles are deconstructed, you in same time construct wall in gaps and deconstruct the rest of the floor in the same line. Why just not deconstruct whole line of floor at one time? Well, Dwarves can deconstruct floor from under each other. Simply less accidents.

So, why wall instead of floor? Imagine bolt shot at birds high in sky falling down on the roof. It will pass all floors and land on first available wall's surface. Annoying in some places (wells?). On second thought also imagine artificial cave-in (from future sieges). Cave in will go down ripping through all floors too. This is also hint how to get surface grazing and agriculture area on 1st z-level, when building surface mountain-home/bunker-house in contradiction to natural terrain, which you want to simply dig out.

Also when building huge home on surface in style of mountains-home, you can do it 2 walls tick. Earlier it was preventing warping in due dodging mechanics. Now it can be handy to have in case of some future siege mechanics, which will deal with 1 wall. 2 walls may buy some time. I usually dig for granit, which like gabro is a stone present on every embark. I just like my fortresses out of granit. When we know future siege mechanics, then maybe some other materials will be better fit. Metal blocks maybe?

[Starver]

(I've considered dealing with the Future Siege Mechanics by making a double-skinned wall and filling it with magma. A roiling liquid present for any sapper that tries to deconstruct my constructions, unwisely. Not sure I'd go so far as try a magma-attic roofspace too, except as a Trap Fortress that I'd intentionally abandon with its gatehouse open.)

[Sarmatian123]

Future Siege Mechanics will provide enemy with digging.

So, it seems to me, all we need to do now (so long balista is not crushing constructed walls too), we need to wall off underground space. Maybe we need also build a huge wall floor, but then maybe just putting constructed floor tiles will be enough? Walls feel more solid, though more blocks put into construction will generate more lag.

An under ground entrance for digging, alike the main gates on surface. Just in case something bad comes from caves.
Another entrance for dungeon, if sieges will start arriving through caves. Total redesign of dungeon, as instead of hall of traps dug out often just from soil layer, it will have to be inside of all-constructed tiles. What a headache.

[CaptainArchmage]

Pretty much what's been said here. If it's a multistory tower, with access expected up to the top, best build an internal staircase.

If you have a single story building, use a ramp, which you can remove later.

Siege mechanics to break walls might be introduced by DFHack, but anything concrete will probably come from a save-breaking update, so don't worry save for RP purposes.

[PatrikLundell]

Pretty much what's been said here. If it's a multistory tower, with access expected up to the top, best build an internal staircase.

If you have a single story building, use a ramp, which you can remove later.

Siege mechanics to break walls might be introduced by DFHack, but anything concrete will probably come from a save-breaking update, so don't worry save for RP purposes.

Digging invaders are threatened to be introduced with "Improved Sieges" just prior to the Big Wait, but Toady hasn't given any indication on whether that will allow them to break walls or "only" pass under them (I'd suspect the latter). Nothing at all has been said about giving the player any new ways to counter the new threat. However, securing a fortress against digging invaders with walls and floors will take decades, so unless some device is introduced to delay the bringing of digging tools with sieges, all fortresses except possibly fully combat oriented ones will fall to the first full size gobbo siege that arrives in year 3-4, where the invaders are both trained, equipped, and outnumber the dorfs significantly.

[Starver]

I imagine[1] it'll scale. If a force arrives and can't get in due to losing military battles, the next one that arrives will bring better fighting units. If they perceive trap opposition as the issue then it'll be more low grade spinnyweapondevicesofdeath-fodder units to soak that up before the true raiders. If they come up against insurmountable walls that look like they can be surmounted with flying troops, then flying troops (if there are any) will be called. If the Algorithm detects that digging past the turtling is the answer, sapper troops. (And possibly other answers. Post "moving fortress parts" update, siege-tower/battering-ram builders may exist to construct their contraptions off the edge/near the edge of the map and then roll them up to the wall they'll lower a bridge upon or doorway/raised-bridge they'll have (basically) their Building Destroyer Wagon act upon.)

For the sake of gameplay, it won't be full capability on the first strike, but based on what was previously encountered (assuming any of a raid escapes to let them know, otherwise just general unguided increase in aggressiveness?), and a layered defence (built up between attacks, if not all at once, inwards and outwards) might be able to surprise them (spies/informers allowing) even if they come prepared.  Plus some degree of war-weariness and limited mangoblin-power might give them pause enough to go elsewhere on the worldmap stage, avoiding your Sparta.


Besides all that, a dwarf is a digging machine (pickaxe provided), and maybe goblins aren't (in Dwarfworld, that is, and at least the kobolds ought to be by Realworld standards) so it'll be a very slow digging capability. Much like the "hot/wet rock" warning, perhaps there'd be an alert for approaching tunnelling that is going to broach your complex (underground patrols needed?), if evidence of the drift-shaft to do so isn't immediately obvious from surface activity as seen by your wall-patrolling guardians, etc...


But that is speculation.



[1] So, make a mental image of the hat you think I might wear, and see the rest of this post as emerging from the top of it in a cloud. Take it no more seriously than that.

[Starver]

(Adding to my mention of our world's Kobold legends, I suppose I mean mostly the mining variety (cornish 'Knocker' type, who bedevil and confound those who work underground) rather than the household variety (lancastrian 'boggarts', scottish 'bogles') who do random not-necessarily/intentionally-harmful things in the home or the ship-borne ones (essentially gremlins, but long prior to their 'discovery' by pilots and crew of aircraft). Though here I'm heavily influenced by British cultural versions, and Tarn may not be.  The DF kobold is, in my headcanon, ideally suited to be co-opted from their caves (those that aren't oppressed to death) by the mysteriously metal-rich goblins to do all the digging they need doing, while 'making use of' unconsidered trinkets, in Dobby The House Elf fashion, and would thus be the more obvious source of a hostile sapper unit if allied/enslaved in the attacking civ. Unless that's kidnapped dwarven children?)

[DrCyano]

Build temporary stairs on the outside of the building if you don't want roof access.

This. Note that you can build stairs in the construction menu ('b' build, 'C' construction, 'x' up-down stair). It bugs the crap out of me that the designate hotkeys and constructing hotkeys are different for stairs.

[thefinn]

Is this true? Holy crap, I had no idea lol

This changes everything!

Can they still get through fortifications? Or is this just an old nightmarish memory I have from back when zombie hands would crawl through?

Make sure to put floor "tiles" on the top of the walls also - otherwise there is a gap between "roof" and wall.  Creatures and enemies will slip in the gap.

You want this:

----------
l           l


Not this:

 -------
l         l

It will keep the sun and rain out.  But not living creatures.  Also, the same with holes caused by trees collapsing.  You need to cover the hole and the edge of the hole.


---
l  l