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[ZeroGravitas]

Yeah I'm excited to see the new enemies. The main complaint I understood from people was not enough enemy variety.

[Kagus]

Yeah I'm excited to see the new enemies. The main complaint I understood from people was not enough enemy variety.

The big problem with that is on the lower levels, which you will see every run as compared to the upper levels, which you won't necessarily see every time due to YASD.

[Aoi]

Yeah I'm excited to see the new enemies. The main complaint I understood from people was not enough enemy variety.

The big problem with that is on the lower levels, which you will see every run as compared to the upper levels, which you won't necessarily see every time due to YASD.

Something fairly related is basically what turns me off of one-life action-y games nowadays-- there's that one encounter in the game that you just can't figure out how to deal with, and you have to spend some frustratingly long amount of time to get there, and you can't figure out what you're doing wrong even when you get there. It kind of just ends up basing your head into the wall of futility.

...In the case of Hades, I can play a flawless game on base difficulty with about half the weapons, except for the minotaur. I just have to take the hits and hope I can burst him down before I die.

[Kagus]

The minotaur runs on a fairly reasonable pattern, but figuring out exactly how his charge works (and thus how to lure him into the pillars effectively) takes a bit of practice.

...what bites my ass are the little bullshit rooms in the Temple of Styx. Super cramped, and EVERYTHING is about area denial. GAH. It basically just comes down to facetanking the fuck out of a few rooms and hoping I don't get completely eaten before the last fight (which is its own kind of bullshittery at times).


The Minotaur+Theseus fight can be a pisser though, once his moveset upgrades.

[Aoi]

The minotaur runs on a fairly reasonable pattern, but figuring out exactly how his charge works (and thus how to lure him into the pillars effectively) takes a bit of practice.

So it is directing him into pillars. Never managed to get it to work.

I did manage to get past him once flawlessly, and it was such a stupid strategy-- I pumped everything into mobility (mostly upgraded dashes) and I could just outrun him the entire time.

[nenjin]

It's Theseus I hate more. That spear throw is super annoying chip damage in an otherwise beatable fight. Having to tediously wait out his throw so you can get a couple hits on him then having to rinse and repeat while god circles are showing up everywhere is also kind of irritating. The bull isn't bad for me, usually the damage I take is more greed than anything being inescapable. You can out dash his rush as long as your timing is good.

So it is directing him into pillars. Never managed to get it to work.

You can also cause him to run into Theseus which deals damage to both of them iirc.

Is it just me, or did they add some i-frames to basic dashes? In like 5 runs since the update I've seen Athena all of three times, and not once has she had Attack Deflect or Dash Deflect. So I've had like no deflect for 5 runs straight, and I swear I'm dashing through attacks in ways I couldn't have gotten away with in earlier builds. I kinda like it to be honest. Deflect is GREAT, but it's so good it becomes a crutch.

Got to see the Spear finally deliver. You really need "Increased Charge Attack Range and Damage" and "Increased Charged Attack Speed" and a decent damage boosting Boon for it to become broken. Which is true of most weapons really, it takes the right couple upgrades to make them WTFOMGBBQ. Still think the spear is the most tedious of all the weapons though. Only the bow is more tedious, but the right weapon aspect immediately makes it more powerful and less annoying than the spear.

Fought the "secret boss." At least I think they're the secret boss.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Charon fight is more or less straightforward at least until the final stages, when there's no pillars to stand behind. Not sure what the strat is there, it seems like you can get past the waves of stuff he summons by standing at the edge...sometimes. I started the fight in Elysium so I was fairly geared when I fought him. Obviously beating him in Tartarus is the most beneficial, but I imagine it's the most challenging because you have very few upgrades, and he seems to have a very beefy health pool. Kind of a cool trade off though, getting Valued Customer in Tartarus means YUGE savings for the rest of the game.

The Well of Charon items....I dunno. Aside from Health or guaranteeing a Chaos Gate, I never really see the point in spending money on any of them. Just always seems better to save your money for the actual shop than waste it on temporary buffs which you honestly don't need 90% of the time.

The new enemies and mini-bosses don't really seem to add as much as I thought. The grabby hands aren't terribly interesting. Draco is basically just a mini hydra head. There's a few mage-type mini-boss fights that kinda suck for how much spam they throw at you (especially with no Deflect) but it's all manageable. I'm gonna continue to say that the weakest point of the entire game is the regular enemies.

Finally read a spoiler about Summons. So I guess there's still quite a bit I have yet to unlock. Decided I'm going to wipe my save on full release and play it through in its entirety, I imagine it will go much faster than the previous times.

[EuchreJack]

Yeah I'm excited to see the new enemies. The main complaint I understood from people was not enough enemy variety.

The big problem with that is on the lower levels, which you will see every run as compared to the upper levels, which you won't necessarily see every time due to YASD.

Something fairly related is basically what turns me off of one-life action-y games nowadays-- there's that one encounter in the game that you just can't figure out how to deal with, and you have to spend some frustratingly long amount of time to get there, and you can't figure out what you're doing wrong even when you get there. It kind of just ends up basing your head into the wall of futility.

...In the case of Hades, I can play a flawless game on base difficulty with about half the weapons, except for the minotaur. I just have to take the hits and hope I can burst him down before I die.

Reminds me of Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura.  The game bills itself as offering a wide range of ways to play the game.  Then you get to the Black Mountain Mines and their Ore Golems, and realize that there are really only a couple viable builds if you want to get the second half of the game.  Frankly, once you get past the Ore Golems, its basically downhill from there.  If you can beat them, and you don't vary radically from the build that let you beat them, then you can beat the game without breaking a sweat.  And the worst part is that the interesting technology won't get you past them, and that most of the magic paths won't get you past them.  The most viable tactic is to ignore both of the interesting paths that the game gives you, and just build a normal brute.  My Charm/strength character let me see most of the game dialog, complete most of the quests and finish the game, and never touched either tech nor magic.

[nenjin]

I dunno. My take on Hades is pretty much every weapon needs SOMETHING to be viable. What makes a better weapon versus a worse weapon is how many upgrades it needs to be viable. I don't think there's any challenge in this game that can't be beaten with every weapon. But there's some sloppiness to how Hades plays IMO. You don't play perfectly because it would take too long, it's more efficient to trade off some damage (which you will easily heal) so you can get damage in so fights don't take 20 minutes. Where builds fall apart is that the damage they do, or how fast they do it, doesn't equal the damage you're taking.

Like I ran the Fists last night and for about half the game I was struggling. Died twice before Elysium. And then I got the right upgrades and smoked everything from Elysium all the way up to Hades. But because I'd taken enough damage and lost enough Death Defiance along the way, when I got to Hades I didn't have enough life to withstand the almost obligatory damage of the fight. I could have played tighter and more patiently (I think I came down to one or two attacks I didn't dodge that meant the difference between winning and losing), but ultimately it was the losses at the start of the game and the RNG that didn't replenish my Death Defiance that cost me the run.

So yeah, I disagree I think. Most builds in Hades are viable if you play conservatively enough. The game just doesn't encourage that kind of play in general. It encourages spam.

[nenjin]

Bumping this to say Hades has reached its 1.0 release and is out of Early Access. Includes the full story, a real ending, and a whole bunch of other jazz I won't list here.

Definitely going to restart the game from scratch, and probably enjoy a few hundred more hours in it.

[Dostoevsky]

I'm generally a fan of action-roguelikes (albeit not terribly good at them), but for whatever reason the premise here just doesn't pique my interest. Is the gameplay good enough to consider picking it up despite that?

I haven't really been paying attention to its time in early access.

[nenjin]

Setting aside, it's got a nice set of mix 'n match abilities via the Boons, 6 weapons with like 5 different aspects a piece, gamepaly is quick and explodey and combo-y. I dig it. It doesn't have Binding of Isaac levels of variety, so if the setting / premise and voice acting / story doesn't do anything for you, it might fall a little short.

[Dostoevsky]

Thanks. Probably safe to wait for a solid sale, then.

[nenjin]

Just escaped on my 9th try. Stygian Blade, Double Special Attack Daedelus upgrade, Demeter's Frost Special, and the good 'ol Freezing Festive Fog Cast.

Spoiler: I think the whole thing is fairly clever (click to show/hide)

I picked up on the cue they give as Zagreus is breathlessly strolling through his first glimpse of the surface world. He's a creature of the Underworld, he can't stay on the surface for very long. Sorta like how Persphone only visits the Underworld for a few months every year in Greek mythology, Zagreus can't stay on the surface very long either. And so it nicely facilitates the post-game loop, because Zagreus wants to go hang out with his mom constantly and has to fight through Hell every time because his dad is a dick.

That does leave the question how all the Gods who should probably be aware Zagreus was on the surface would react to Zagreus not actually going to see them. Be interested to see if that plays out in some way in the post-game game. Lots and lots more to do.

On a side note, I feel like Deflection may have gotten a little frame nerf. Doesn't seem quite as easy to just deflect away a pile of damage with Divine Dash as much anymore. Might just be in my head. Generally though the game feels a little harder than the last release. I kinda thought I'd smoke it once I got double dash and a Death Defiance or two. But I had to work a little harder than I thought I would for my first escape.

[Nighthawk]

Holy moly I missed this game. I did about 10 runs after buying it and decided, since the next update would be 1.0, to wait until then. I'd forgotten how fun it was. My first new run was using Choronacht (Bow) with the Aspect of Hera, and it felt surprisingly... good. I didn't actually get much use out of the cast-loading ability because I didn't pick up a particularly good cast, but even basic shots were doing pretty respectable damage. Paired with a blessing from Demeter that triggered a 30 damage a tick DoT when all enemies in the area were chilled, and even the spread shot, which I previously found lacking, was super useful.

I dunno how much of that was under-the-hood changes and how much was just me getting a decent build going, but either way, it's great to be back in hell.

(Theseus and his minotaur friend are still a royal pain in my royal butt, but I've gotten to Hades a couple of times in the past, so I think I'm just a bit rusty.)

[nenjin]

I still hate the spear.

Beat Hades with pretty much every other weapon on my first try more or less after my first win.

But I've made 4 attempts with the spear and gotten stomped at Hades every time.

I think the charge attack just doesn't do that much damage, and leaves you hella vulnerable. Even with Divine Strike for the Deflection, the fast charge and several Chaos boons for +Attack Damage, I couldn't beat Hades with it. I'm sure part of it is just me spamming too much instead of avoiding. But I swear for how much spam that weapon puts out, its damage isn't that great and it's got a crappy recovery window that leaves you getting hit before you can dash out or start a new one.