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[LoSboccacc]

I would kickstart, but I am burned from "That which sleeps" : (

At least this one can show gameplay that doesn't look faked, but yeah I'm leery of kickstarter these days too. Still going to keep my eye on this.

yeah kickstarter without a demo are on the high risk list for everyone

I'm pondering to make an exception for this one, but so far we've seen zero gameplay, only stuff being created in god mode, so it's super hard to have a sense of what the game is about, how the game loop plays, what a city actually do beyond being there and having its pixel simulated.

[geoffroypir]

yeah kickstarter without a demo are on the high risk list for everyone

I'm pondering to make an exception for this one, but so far we've seen zero gameplay, only stuff being created in god mode, so it's super hard to have a sense of what the game is about, how the game loop plays, what a city actually do beyond being there and having its pixel simulated.

Ouch ! I see. My vision is biased, I have my nose stuck  into code I don't realise how unconnected the gameplay is looking in my project from an exterior POV.
The good news is that I have done a lot of work on the backend so the foundation is good and given the external pressure for concrete gameplay elements I have decided to switch to this and to work on UI as well. Hopefully we shall see solid gameplay loop in about a month.

For exemple this evening I will work on ressources extraction and because this is dependent to the whole pixel simulation, I ve delayed that part until now.
And because there was no raw material production yet, the whole economy couldn't be properly simulated !

What takes times is to make a very customizable game engines and to allow the supports of mods, this is something that needs to be done before. It is not impressive for the end-user but it is crucial to scale up content afteward.

[Starver]

Can't say anything for sure, as I've never ever Kickstarted before (well, nothing through Kickstarter itself, I've donated to projects like this[1]), but I think you're probably worth something. I'll have a look, and see if I can do something for you and also put something into DF (after checking Patreon - also not one of my past donation routes - something I've put off for way too long) once I know I've got the disposable income over the coming month and no over-expensive emergency shoe shopping (once the shops open back up, and I can finally replace my boots that I just missed replacing at the start of lockdown).

Empty promises don't do much, I know, but if I put this down in writing then I might not forget about it.



[1] Which reminds me, I keep meaning to check back with something I supported back in the phases prior to Kickstarter even being a thing...  I think I'm owed a DVD, or modern equivalent.

[LoSboccacc]

 I have my nose stuck  into code I don't realise how unconnected the gameplay is looking in my project from an exterior POV.

tbh you should be focused on promotion during fundraising events. it's easy to approach kickstarter with an idea one loves and just expect likely minded people to just resonate with it, especially if one own background is mainly programming, and it's hard to multitask as highly focused individuals like developers are. not going to say you should need to retreat and regroup to push a better kickstarter later, but you should be like working on getting this thing out 24/7, and youtube has 4 videos, with a reach of a few hundreds people.

to put it buntly: even if everyone you reached would back the project, you'd be reaching about halfway the goal.

the math is just not in your favor here, *irregardless* of the actual game quality.

[geoffroypir]

tbh you should be focused on promotion during fundraising events. it's easy to approach kickstarter with an idea one loves and just expect likely minded people to just resonate with it, especially if one own background is mainly programming, and it's hard to multitask as highly focused individuals like developers are. not going to say you should need to retreat and regroup to push a better kickstarter later, but you should be like working on getting this thing out 24/7, and youtube has 4 videos, with a reach of a few hundreds people.

to put it buntly: even if everyone you reached would back the project, you'd be reaching about halfway the goal.

the math is just not in your favor here, *irregardless* of the actual game quality.

I don't expect the campaign to be a success, actually I did not even expect the attention I have so far, so I am rather pleased.
Everyday I gain a lot with this campaign, it won't be money to improve the game but awarness, valuable informations, feedbacks, contacts and metrics for another polished and promoted campaign.

You are too kind on the numbers the gross traffic on the page so far haven't even reached 100 yet, that is on of the metrics I wanted to gather. (and maybe half of it was me refreshing the page haha)

you should be like working on getting this thing out 24/7

Well, programming takes time and even during this test campaign I prefer to use my time on the actual programming of the game and slowly building solid awarness, trust and getting feedback than doing a all-in and ephemeral money-making marketing campaign.
Also I cannot work 24/7 on that project, hence the kickstarter. I have a full time job to pay rent food and taxes and I work on the game all night (lockdown ended the 11/05 here). That is why most of my progress are done on sundays where I can develop for a full 24hours.

but I think you're probably worth something.

Haha, for whatever reasons it made me laugh. Thank you.
You can also back me and walk bare foot... man there are priorities in life don't be selfish.

[BigD145]

Running a "test campaign" can burn you. I have followed quite a few board game kickstarters and failed campaigns are a bad sign that some shy away from. Get someone big to interview you. Your kickstarter is live so there are places to link to. Contact any active roguelike podcasts that have interviewed Tarn in the past. Find someone in the Worms community. The guy that does DnD animations with the wiggler head JCat is also into Worms. Send an email. Give him a week or two to respond. He has a circle of folks that could be contacts.

[geoffroypir]

Running a "test campaign" can burn you. I have followed quite a few board game kickstarters and failed campaigns are a bad sign that some shy away from. Get someone big to interview you. Your kickstarter is live so there are places to link to. Contact any active roguelike podcasts that have interviewed Tarn in the past. Find someone in the Worms community. The guy that does DnD animations with the wiggler head JCat is also into Worms. Send an email. Give him a week or two to respond. He has a circle of folks that could be contacts.

This is very relevant, but I think I will first work hard on the game itself and its presentation and then take PR measure (which is very time consuming).
My presentation is deeply flawed, the main issue being the lack of presentation on gameplay elements, the foundations for an efficient promotion are too fragile for now, I intend to work on this first.
I don't think that the retained community for my current campaign will abandon any support if I make frequent updates and show commitment on this project. I they don't feel disapointed or if they feel impressed by the progress they will become a support.

[Trolldefender99]

You'd probably have better luck with patreon than kickstarter. Kickstarter is too filled with scams. With patreon, you'd get monthly "donations" for various tiers for guaranteed income. On other hand if dont update often and have barely any to show, then people stop patreon. All the patreon games in development I've supported also let you play the game as its being made.

I find however patreon is vastly better than kickstarter, and less "risky". The only risk is the creator stops/gives up or actually had nothing to show, which then the payment to them stops. At least with patreon you are guaranteed to see constant updates and news. And if there is none then like I said, the person can turn off the patreon membership to that person.

[BigD145]

You'd probably have better luck with patreon than kickstarter. Kickstarter is too filled with scams. With patreon, you'd get monthly "donations" for various tiers for guaranteed income. On other hand if dont update often and have barely any to show, then people stop patreon. All the patreon games in development I've supported also let you play the game as its being made.

I find however patreon is vastly better than kickstarter, and less "risky". The only risk is the creator stops/gives up or actually had nothing to show, which then the payment to them stops. At least with patreon you are guaranteed to see constant updates and news. And if there is none then like I said, the person can turn off the patreon membership to that person.

Patreon is more risky for the creator. People can just sit back and only give subscription when a beta or demo pops up and then cancel. That's not support. Kickstarter is a lump sum payment and hopefully the creator budgeted themselves accurately. Kickstarter has a lot preorders and fewer outright scams (usually high dollar inventions that are obviously too good to be true) among the hobbyist games and such. Using KS for preorders is shitty but not scammy.

[geoffroypir]

You'd probably have better luck with patreon than kickstarter. Kickstarter is too filled with scams. With patreon, you'd get monthly "donations" for various tiers for guaranteed income. On other hand if dont update often and have barely any to show, then people stop patreon. All the patreon games in development I've supported also let you play the game as its being made.

I find however patreon is vastly better than kickstarter, and less "risky". The only risk is the creator stops/gives up or actually had nothing to show, which then the payment to them stops. At least with patreon you are guaranteed to see constant updates and news. And if there is none then like I said, the person can turn off the patreon membership to that person.

That is something to consider indeed, also I am wondering is patreon really compatible with a commercial game project ?

Patreon is more risky for the creator. People can just sit back and only give subscription when a beta or demo pops up and then cancel. That's not support. Kickstarter is a lump sum payment and hopefully the creator budgeted themselves accurately. Kickstarter has a lot preorders and fewer outright scams (usually high dollar inventions that are obviously too good to be true) among the hobbyist games and such. Using KS for preorders is shitty but not scammy.

My game is budgeted in a way that I do not require money to continue developpement (hence the minimalist and low quality arts). Money would basically buy me time by working less on my current job and allow me to source some graphic arts and music.
The goal of 10k€ is the basically to work full time on the project while having minimal presence in my company (not the game) and to release a beta by the end of the year.
But given previous estimations and because I ve already worked with some freelancer I know, I am pretty sure I can fill all the crucial gaps with no more than 2.5k€ and slowly make my way to a beta release for mid 2021.
The amount raised is also an indicator on how commercially viable my project could be with proper marketing, because in the end I want to make game developpement my full time trade.

[geoffroypir]

I made some progress on the industry part. Here is my weekly update.

Flora and growable things.


Before going into the industry I will introduce how flora works now. I have worked to make growable elements, be it trees, plants, crystals, eggs or anything that can grow over time.
This allow for the flora to flourish naturally. Each growable has some specific caracteristics like there appearance for each phase, the mean time to grow, the optimal  temperature, humidity and atmosphere, it maturity phase and the ressources it yield once harvested, a list of adequate grounds (color) it can grow on and other variables and behaviours.
This was an important feature so I could build a special buildings that can harvest « growables ». And it allowed the world the look more lively.

Harvesting wood

The first building I made is a sawmill. This simple building detects any mature tree in range and regularly yield a proportionate amount of wood. This building will replant trees overtime to keep the tree population.

Trees will slowly grow.

Another way to gather wood is by using a god-mode tool to manually harvesting trees in a zone around your city. But it cost money to use this quick tool.

The lumberjack camp
Is an early building to harvest wood. This cheap building doesn't require elecricity to operate and cost only money to build.


Farming

Farming uses almost the same feature as wood harvesting. Farms grow the selected seed around the building. It is important to clear the ground around.


Small farm : for early farming


Modern farm : uses industrial materials but yield more ressources.

Mining

A new building behaviour is the extractor, wich slowly grind its way through the earth. Each mined pixel yield a random amount of different ores. The yield depends of the pixel itself, its color which usually depends on the depth. Mining deeply is usually more profitable but there are ore veins on the underground map, and you should seek for them.
Mining also make some space to build underground facilities.



Permanent veins
Some special veins are randomly spawned on the map, these are permanent veins and building an underground mining facility provides a steady and permanent income for this specific ore.


Oil extraction


Any liquid can be extracted with a well but the most profitable is to exploit underground oil .
The well has an extractor mounted on that quickly drill a thin hole until it find any liquid. This extractor is faster  than a regular but don't extract any ore, as it main usage it to find oil or any valuable liquid.
Once the extractor find a liquid, the pump will slowly extract liquid.
Wells are expensive to maintain and it can take time to reach the targeted oil reserve, therefore the player should first aim for shallow oil reserves.
You can chose to control manually the level of the pump.

Surface pump


This building works similarly to oil well, but it operates on the surface, Water is a very valuable ressource as it is used to produce hydrogen and oxygen.
While destined to pump water, this pump will extract any liquid that come in contact with it.
You can chose to control manually the level of the pump as well.

Wood burner


This building burns wood to make coal. This building doesnt requires electricity and is a easy way to produces coal early.

At last the economy is flowing with basic ressources.
Of course there was a lot of work appart from these features.

The next update will be about the transformation industry, in which we will uses all these raw materiats to refine them,
And then I will work on Industry Goods, Consumer Goods and Military Goods production.

[Blood_Librarian]

the production chain looks really neat, but your mention of atmosphere makes me want ot know how exactly the atmospherics system works, is it mostly static or could it change depending on depth?

[Starver]

I think somewhere we already know it varies to height.

Whether you mean depth of atmosphere (some seriously interesting variation of world conditions, there) or the more likely "what happens down a deep mineshaft", I'm sure that could be an interesting dynamic.

[geoffroypir]

the production chain looks really neat, but your mention of atmosphere makes me want ot know how exactly the atmospherics system works, is it mostly static or could it change depending on depth?

I have made a video devlog about weather that explains about the atmosphere.
While the weather itself is dynamic (humidity, static electric charge build up, temperature and temperature variation, rain, snow, wind) for now there isn't much influence from the player.
For now only temperature  and gravity will vary according to depth.
Atcmosphere pollution build up is a thing but only an unused value for now.

"what happens down a deep mineshaft"

I don't understand what you are saying, what could possibly go wrong by blindly drilling too greedily and too deep ?

[Mephansteras]

I've seen Patreon work for some small game projects before. Usually gets a few core people who donate monthly and then occasional people who will pop in to donate for a given month to get access to a release.
I'd say it's fine, as long as your budget allows for those kinds of spikes.

As for the latest screen shots, they look great! Looking forward to seeing where you go with this.