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Author Topic: Various feature suggestions  (Read 1349 times)

eurydike

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Various feature suggestions
« on: May 05, 2020, 08:23:42 am »

Competitions and contests
Competition events in which the dwarves could participate, such as wrestling matches, archery competitions, poetry, painting or cooking contests. A dream to win a contest for dwarves with a competive personality trait, with a possible limit of minimum number of participants, or no dwarves being barred from participating? Event could attract visitors?

Farming and growing complexity
Perhaps some additional subterranean crops?
Environment and plant interactions, some plants requiring a different type of soil, temperature?
So in order to grow a certain type of crop, perhaps it would be necessary to find a suitable spot?

Product refinement levels
Refinement depth of the crafting and production elements could be increased?
Additional look at refined product complexity?
Tools affecting work quality or speed?
E.g. Chisel, pick could affect masonry or carpentry?
Tongs or hammer required for blacksmithing?
Refining additional stone and ore types into various products?

Additional furniture and furniture functions
Cupboards for mugs? Weaponracks usable for storing weapons?

Mining complexity
Mining a staircase straight downwards is perhaps too straightforward and easy. A possible way to increase mining complexity could be based on different types of ores, stones and minerals.
The end result could be that it would become possible to try and examine and find seams of ores that are easier to mine, to progress downwards faster.
Particularly hard rocks might require picks made of harder materials, and/or mining rate might be dependent on tool and mining skill quality?
Mining time of staircases could be considerably increased coupled with the previous suggestion, perhaps?
This though seems related to the pathfinding question?
Perhaps staircases could only be built upwards (on top of a supporting structure?) to increase cavern interaction?

Minicaverns
Small pockets of air, subterranean vegetation?

Building durability and materials?
Perhaps buildings made of harder rocks or woods might offer improved shelter for invaders? Maybe wooden walls could be penetrated in sieges?
Perhaps there could be a tradeoff for construction time and such durability?

Stackable stoneblocks?
Perhaps stoneblocks could be stored in stacks by default?

Rainwater collection and crop interaction?
Maybe it would be possible to collect rainwater (In the absence of a pool)?
Perhaps some crops would require (rain)water to grow?

Technology or "objects as recipes" in the procedurally generated world
I think it would be interesting if the objects available would vary a bit between worlds and games. For an example if there was a coreset of basic objects, and then an additional set of optional objects, which could be invented by dwarves and other civilizations. Such as new furniture, clothing, weapons, tools, ideas even. They could spread in the form of books, travelling craftsmen, traders etc. Maybe there could be a simple check to test whether a knowledge is spread well enough to declare it as available everywhere. Inventions could take place in libraries by scholars, in guildhalls by craftsmen, etc.







« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 12:26:09 pm by eurydike »
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MrWiggles

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Re: Various feature suggestions
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2020, 08:42:24 am »

Is this meant to be a collection of previous suggestions?
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eurydike

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Re: Various feature suggestions
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2020, 08:52:13 am »

Is this meant to be a collection of previous suggestions?

No. Sorry, I did not check if they have already been suggested. Which I should've done. To think of it, most of these do seem like they probably have been suggested already. Hopefully not all of them.  :'( :'(
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Azerty

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Re: Various feature suggestions
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2020, 03:25:32 pm »

Mining complexity
Mining a staircase straight downwards is perhaps too straightforward and easy. A possible way to increase mining complexity could be based on different types of ores, stones and minerals.
The end result could be that it would become possible to try and examine and find seams of ores that are easier to mine, to progress downwards faster.
Particularly hard rocks might require picks made of harder materials, and/or mining rate might be dependent on tool and mining skill quality?
Mining time of staircases could be considerably increased coupled with the previous suggestion, perhaps?
This though seems related to the pathfinding question?

For exemple, gold mining could require mercury.
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Various feature suggestions
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2020, 06:22:57 pm »

Is this meant to be a collection of previous suggestions?

No. Sorry, I did not check if they have already been suggested. Which I should've done. To think of it, most of these do seem like they probably have been suggested already. Hopefully not all of them.  :'( :'(
Should probably assume that in the past 15 years, other people have noticed, suggested and discussed in-depth improvements to almost every part of the game. That's why, unless you have a cool out-of-the-box idea, or it's a suggestion about improving brand new features, it's best to read through the previous suggestions and add ideas to old threads.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 06:25:34 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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Uthimienure

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Re: Various feature suggestions
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2020, 06:36:35 pm »

Searching forums can be a royal pain. It never works well for me, I know that.

Is there a guide for effective searching?
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Various feature suggestions
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2020, 06:40:11 pm »

Searching forums can be a royal pain. It never works well for me, I know that.

Is there a guide for effective searching?
Make sure to use the search box in the suggestions forum rather than the one on the front page. Search "mining". Search other key words. And if you make a post of your own give it a meaningful thread title (unlike "various suggestions"...)
But, yeah, it can be a pain.

For example, in one search for mining, one of the top results was this 35 page discussion on everything agricultural. (Yeah, I know...).
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=76007.msg7165937#msg7165937

Competitions are already in the game, everything in worldgen is likely to make into into gameplay (and vice versa) in the long term. So he already has that one.

A couple of pages on tools (for when workshops become zones):
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=168474.msg7631778#msg7631778

Pickaxe quality should improve digging:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175326.msg8074632#msg8074632

Improved Sieges (digging through walls): Already in dev notes, coming after Villains is finished off once Steam is out of the way.

Now, my search seems to be hampered by the fact that I can only view page 1 of 35 pages of results for some reason (the other pages are all blank). Not sure if that's happening for everyone.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 06:53:47 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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Uthimienure

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Re: Various feature suggestions
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2020, 07:27:50 pm »

Searching forums can be a royal pain. It never works well for me, I know that.

Is there a guide for effective searching?
Make sure to use the search box in the suggestions forum rather than the one on the front page. Search "mining". Search other key words. And if you make a post of your own give it a meaningful thread title (unlike "various suggestions"...)
But, yeah, it can be a pain.
...

My apology to the OP for getting this off-topic, but to open another thread would be silly.

@Shonai_Dweller
An example of a recent search I did before posting about stairs & wheelbarrows.
I searched in the Suggestions forum for: wheelbarrow stair
The results showed 8 threads, and reading through the results showed nothing talking specifically about what I then suggested in this thread:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176271.msg8134879#msg8134879
(Although my mind was blown that search didn't come up with a similar topic, because to me it seemed like such an obvious suggestion, how could it not have been done already?)  Can you find anything?
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FPS in Gravearmor (925+ dwarves) is 2-5 (v0.47.05 lives on).
"I've never really had issues with the old DF interface (I mean, I loved even 'umkh'!)" ... brewer bob
As we say in France: "ah, l'amour toujours l'amour"... François D.

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Various feature suggestions
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2020, 07:42:41 pm »

Searching forums can be a royal pain. It never works well for me, I know that.

Is there a guide for effective searching?
Make sure to use the search box in the suggestions forum rather than the one on the front page. Search "mining". Search other key words. And if you make a post of your own give it a meaningful thread title (unlike "various suggestions"...)
But, yeah, it can be a pain.
...

My apology to the OP for getting this off-topic, but to open another thread would be silly.

@Shonai_Dweller
An example of a recent search I did before posting about stairs & wheelbarrows.
I searched in the Suggestions forum for: wheelbarrow stair
The results showed 8 threads, and reading through the results showed nothing talking specifically about what I then suggested in this thread:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=176271.msg8134879#msg8134879
(Although my mind was blown that search didn't come up with a similar topic, because to me it seemed like such an obvious suggestion, how could it not have been done already?)  Can you find anything?
As I say, my search seems to be broken right now, it won't let me get off page 1.

However, the well thought out suggestions tend to follow the way Toady approaches the game development, that is, not "wheelbarrow improvement" but "hauling rewrite". In those discussions, wheelbarrows and stairs may get mentioned (I just imagine a groove running up the middle of the staircase for wheelbarrows, doesn't bother me too much. Stairs near where I live all seem to have a slope for pushing a bike or wheeling a suitcase).

Here's 10 pages on hauling improvements (don't know if this one goes into wheelbarrow/stair issues specifically though):
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=78413.msg2024084#msg2024084
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eurydike

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Re: Various feature suggestions
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2020, 07:46:59 pm »

Among all those pages there are probably suggestions that are indeed very similar to these.

That agricultural revolution thread seems pretty interesting by the way. It discusses a topic called `physiocracy` which I think is probably a bit inaccurate. In short I guess you can say that economic product/wealth is a result of land (natural resources/location(Georgism)), capital (wealth dedicated to the production of more wealth) and labour(Activities performed by dwarves). A crop does indeed grow out of the ground primarily by virtue of nature. Rain falls from the sky, sun shines and the soil has various nutrients, even in the absence of human (or in the case of the game, dwarven) intervention. But to till the soil requires labour, which adjusts the growth of crops. Stockpiled fertilizers and seeds, shacks and storages, would be capital. There's also `the level of technological development` and `human capital` which can be taken into account. See here for an example:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cobb%E2%80%93Douglas_production_function
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solow%E2%80%93Swan_model

Quote
Pickaxe quality should improve digging:
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=175326.msg8074632#msg8074632

Regarding the above two, I'd like to note that the `pickaxe quality` suggestion is a bit besides the point. It's perhaps too straightforward to simply dig deep stairwell, and the primary idea was that you could find obstacles, that are not impossible to overcome, but for an example the player would be faced with a decision whether to try and find a way around a seam of a particularly tough ore, whether to first produce improved digging implements to tackle it more effectively, or whether to invest a big chunk of time to make that straight stairwell through it.

So you've to note the amount of time spent and convenience of the alternative path. To be able to adjust the time it takes to pass through the harder ore or stone. E.g. If there's a rock type that takes twice the amount of time to mine, an alternative path that would manage to find a way around the cluster, would still take ten or twenty times longer. Staircase digging would be one coefficient to scale the opportunity cost. Pickaxe mining effect would complement this, but it's not necessary.

Additionally this would allow increasing the difficulty of making it deeper underground.

Quote
Improved Sieges (digging through walls): Already in dev notes, coming after Villains is finished off once Steam is out of the way.

This is definitely a very similar suggestion. The notion of material, building time and durability as being tradeoffs still seems like a complementary adjustment.

PS.

I remember seeing a list of `suggested features` in another context. A similar listing would be good for DF as well. So you could check from the list whether this thing has been suggested already, if the suggestion was rejected, if it's in development, or if it's accepted, implemented already.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 07:50:30 pm by eurydike »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Various feature suggestions
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2020, 08:47:46 pm »

There was a list. But it requires someone to maintain it for the next 20-30 years. Which is why the old list stopped being relevant, was never updated even after features were implemented (or made obsolete by other developments).

Besides, Toady reads all the threads here and keeps his own list, so the suggestions are all reaching the right place. Even if he does have the mind-nunbing job of reading the same suggestions over and over and over again.

Also, he won't implement any suggestion he doesn't want to implement. He was very straight about this in a recent interview. Working to a list of other people's demands would just kill the project for him.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2020, 08:52:38 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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