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[ZebioLizard2]

So are we going to get people screaming betrayal in the middle of public places about this one? Seriously we have people saying that the removal of a mechanic for a story driven x-com game is now equal to making a mobile game and the hyperbole continues to get worse.

They did not state this was X-com 3. They did not state this was how things were going to be going forward. This was originally supposed to be a minor story expansion for 2 before they realized it would be too different as DLC and thus made it it's own little spinoff.

[nenjin]

I'm going to take the high road and just ignore it like I did The Bureau

[scriver]

Yeah, it's not what I want from an x-com game. Unsure if it's what I want from a game (the Mutant game I mentioned above was originally on my to buy-list, but I've refrained from actually buying it -- over time, it just seemed less like a game I would enjoy, especially since there's no character creation or randomisation). I'm just going to let it go by.

...And be gleeful if it flops, but that's just me being an arse.

[itisnotlogical]

So are we going to get people screaming betrayal in the middle of public places about this one? Seriously we have people saying that the removal of a mechanic for a story driven x-com game is now equal to making a mobile game and the hyperbole continues to get worse.

They did not state this was X-com 3. They did not state this was how things were going to be going forward. This was originally supposed to be a minor story expansion for 2 before they released it would be too different as DLC and thus made it it's own little spinoff.

But don't you understand?! A spin-off with different mechanics means that XCOM is RUINED FOREVER! They are literally murdering my childhood! For, as we all know, there are only two kinds of games: epic tactical simulation RPGs for big brain hardcore gamers only, and Farmville facebook clicker bullshit. Nope, there is no space for enjoyment between those genres at all, one or the other.

[Rince Wind]

I am still trying to figure out where the multiple layers of betrayal were. Then supposedly an improvement, which is pretty amazing as we don't really have anything besides the announcement the other day. But despite that we have further betrayal after that.

[scriver]

No, they betrayed us by not trying to trick us it was an x-com game like with the Baueruaeyu

[ZebioLizard2]

No, they betrayed us by not trying to trick us it was an x-com game like with the Baueruaeyu

So the new Xcom game isn't an Xcom game because it has removed a mechanic (Permadeath) in order to tell a more story driven game.. While being far cheaper then an X-com game because it's a spinoff.

And thus it's a betrayal.

[a1s]

Yeah after I hit post, I realized, hey, Fallout is the even better analogy, because of the multiple layers of betrayal, improvement, and further betrayal. Before Fallout Shelter... there was... Fallout 3.

I am still trying to figure out where the multiple layers of betrayal were. Then supposedly an improvement, which is pretty amazing as we don't really have anything besides the announcement the other day. But despite that we have further betrayal after that.

I think he was talking about NuCom in general. It was betrayal of the old games, but also (in some aspects) an improvement. Then this game is the betrayal of more of what you would call core concepts of an X-Com game.

I don't subscribe to this point of view, but that's how I understand it goes.

[itisnotlogical]

Betrayal is so over-dramatic and makes the argument sound petulant rather than serious.

For one thing, it's a reboot of a franchise that didn't exist for 15 years at that point. What, did you expect them to pick up the pieces were Apocalypse left off? Or just create a pretty version of UFO Defense without touching anything at all? Why even bother playing a new game at that point, just mod the original, you didn't want a new game to begin with anyway.

For two, neither Firaxis nor the people working there owe anybody anything in regards to specific gameplay mechanics. Them making a game, even a game with a particular brand, does not constitute a promise to anybody, anywhere--except maybe the publisher, that they'll deliver on time and do their best to make the money back. There is no agreement, spoken or unspoken, to betray--except the sort of unspoken one-sided "deliver exactly what I want, how I want it or else" agreement that gamers seem to be making with developers, publishers and storefronts these days.

Either way, I'm sure a bunch of people are ready to review bomb it into oblivion without even installing it on launch day, thus ensuring that we never see anything new or different out of the XCOM franchise ever again.

[Iduno]

No room for irony ITT.

[E. Albright]

For two, neither Firaxis nor the people working there owe anybody anything in regards to specific gameplay mechanics.

If we're wandering into the unhelpful territory of what is "owed", companies aren't owed franchise loyalty, nor positive reviews from fans of the prior game(s), even though that's what they're seeking by attaching the new product to an existing franchise. So you're right: the company owes the consumers nothing - but they're not owed anything either, but they're seeking something from the consumer. There's an implicit transactional exchange between the company and consumer, and as a result, if the company doesn't deliver what the consumers think they're offering, the consumers will feel justified in feeling used to generate hype in exchange for nothing.

[Chiefwaffles]

And with Firaxis they’ve been clear from the start.
Like with XCOM: EU.
Like with XCOM2.
Like with Chimera Squad.

Chimera Squad is as much a betrayal to the franchise as Far Cry Blood Dragon was to its series. Or in other words, it’s not a betrayal at all.

And clearly the series is doing pretty well. You’re right — they’re not owed anything. And not a single person here is acting like they are. I for one am just incredibly tired of every single new XCom thread having the exact same argument. This is identical to what happened when XCom 2 had a thread. People came out of the woodworks to proudly claim how much they HATED it and how it’s THE WORST THING TO EVER HAPPEN. Just like they did in the Enemy Unknown thread (which was a more valid place but the argument quickly overstayed its welcome there).

The new games aren’t for you, and you should know that if you’re this vitriolic still. In a perfect world, everyone would love every game. But that’s unfortunately not the case. Games like Chimera Squad (which again, $10 spinoff of the game using the same engine as a fun story + gameplay distraction while the main team continues to work on the main game) happen because there are a lot of people who enjoy the new XComs.
You don’t just revive and rejuvenate an entire genre of games by being disliked or ignored by everyone.

But please. Just... cut it out. Come on. Whatever your point is we get it. You don’t like the new games. Cool. Don’t need to say it again. 

[ZebioLizard2]

And with Firaxis they’ve been clear from the start.
Like with XCOM: EU.
Like with XCOM2.
Like with Chimera Squad.

Chimera Squad is as much a betrayal to the franchise as Far Cry Blood Dragon was to its series. Or in other words, it’s not a betrayal at all.

And clearly the series is doing pretty well. You’re right — they’re not owed anything. And not a single person here is acting like they are. I for one am just incredibly tired of every single new XCom thread having the exact same argument. This is identical to what happened when XCom 2 had a thread. People came out of the woodworks to proudly claim how much they HATED it and how it’s THE WORST THING TO EVER HAPPEN. Just like they did in the Enemy Unknown thread (which was a more valid place but the argument quickly overstayed its welcome there).

The new games aren’t for you, and you should know that if you’re this vitriolic still. In a perfect world, everyone would love every game. But that’s unfortunately not the case. Games like Chimera Squad (which again, $10 spinoff of the game using the same engine as a fun story + gameplay distraction while the main team continues to work on the main game) happen because there are a lot of people who enjoy the new XComs.
You don’t just revive and rejuvenate an entire genre of games by being disliked or ignored by everyone.

But please. Just... cut it out. Come on. Whatever your point is we get it. You don’t like the new games. Cool. Don’t need to say it again.

Pretty much this. It's gotten old.

[pikachu17]

For two, neither Firaxis nor the people working there owe anybody anything in regards to specific gameplay mechanics.

If we're wandering into the unhelpful territory of what is "owed", companies aren't owed franchise loyalty, nor positive reviews from fans of the prior game(s), even though that's what they're seeking by attaching the new product to an existing franchise. So you're right: the company owes the consumers nothing - but they're not owed anything either, but they're seeking something from the consumer. There's an implicit transactional exchange between the company and consumer, and as a result, if the company doesn't deliver what the consumers think they're offering, the consumers will feel justified in feeling used to generate hype in exchange for nothing.

Used to generate hype in exchange for nothing? Did they hide that this isn't the same as regular X-com from people? If they didn't, then any hype those people got was misplaced and not intended, unless the game is different from the earliest marketing or they liked what the first marketing said about it but the game is not like it's marketing.

[Toady One]

I removed some posts as the fighting was starting to get out of hand.  I'm not really sure where I should have started pruning, since many of the posts above this one are still on the same general topic, but less aggressive.  In any case, please try to maintain order between factions in this thread.