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Author Topic: XCOM: Chimera Squad - XCOM SWAT, aka XCOPS  (Read 10331 times)

ZeroGravitas

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Re: XCOM: Chimera Squad - XCOM SWAT, releasing April 23
« Reply #45 on: April 16, 2020, 08:22:22 pm »

the "betrayal" is supposed to refer to Fallout, which began as a 90s RPG from the same company as Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment, but is now an idle clicker game

it was a slow slide from turn-based combat RPG to bullet-time FPS to get there though. and New Vegas was good!!

and so was NuCom 2! it was legitimately good!

but when you look back at Fallout, and then look at the next step XCOM is taking, you can't be optimistic for the direction that the IP owners are going with it.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: XCOM: Chimera Squad - XCOM SWAT, releasing April 23
« Reply #46 on: April 16, 2020, 08:50:05 pm »

the "betrayal" is supposed to refer to Fallout, which began as a 90s RPG from the same company as Baldur's Gate and Planescape: Torment, but is now an idle clicker game

it was a slow slide from turn-based combat RPG to bullet-time FPS to get there though. and New Vegas was good!!

and so was NuCom 2! it was legitimately good!

but when you look back at Fallout, and then look at the next step XCOM is taking, you can't be optimistic for the direction that the IP owners are going with it.


That doesn't really seem to be the case, though.
With Fallout, Fallout Shelter is still pretty straightforward and not really a betrayal. It was announced at the same time and place as Fallout 4. Fallout 4 is a pretty consistent progression of Fallout 3. So bar the huge shift in the series from Bethesda starting work on the IP, there's not much going on here. Fallout Shelter existed, and did not change the direction of the series. There's the whole thing with Fallout 76, but it is no way a progression indicated by Fallout Shelter.

But regardless. XCOM2 doesn't represent any kind of simplification of XCOM 2012. Hell, with the DLC included (and compared to Enemy Within to be fair) it's more complex. Especially the fatigue system. A mechanic, added in the mainline expansion pack to XCOM2, that increases the size of your roster therefore allowing permadeath to become a bigger factor in the game without effectively translating to a game over. When you lose a character, it's a lot easier to continue as a player when they were 1 of 16 then if they were 1 of 8. So for more people, permadeath becomes a more prominent feature rather than a fancy way of telling the player to restart or load their prior saves now.

Chimera Squad is A.) clearly developed by a smaller team as part of a smaller project and therefore does not represent significant investment in some "new future" of the series. It is B.) Not emphasized by Firaxis, being $10 and releasing only 9 days after its announcement and reveal. It C.) is pretty clear in why it has the features it has. It, this specific one-off game, wants to focus on set characters as soldiers you control. It is not a good idea to try writing important characters around permadeath in any scope unless you're fine with just telling the player "okay you fucked up your save now that they're dead good luck". So no permadeath in this specific, one-off, game.
For a $10 game, it's clearly presented as "hey, we quickly made a small campaign focusing mostly on tactics and story! Like the combat in XCom2? You'll like this!" The features that aren't included from XCom2 aren't missing because they're considered not part of the series or not beneficial overall anymore, but they aren't included because they're out of scope for a $10/$20 game.

Using the Far Cry example, it's like looking at Blood Dragon and deciding that it obviously means every Far Cry game in the future will, without exception, be shlocky 80's B-Movie sci-fi because since this small-scope spinoff clearly can and should be used to determine the future of the whole franchise.
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GobbieMarauder

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Re: XCOM: Chimera Squad - XCOM SWAT, releasing April 23
« Reply #47 on: April 17, 2020, 12:34:52 am »

I really wouldn't be surprised if we do see elements of this (I'm specifically thinking of the breach system) in NuCom 3: Terror From The Deep 2. I'm reminded of how once upon a time Square would use the Crystal Chronicle games for all the weird ideas they thought were too risky to put in a mainline Final Fantasy. I really doubt the lack of permadeath will be one of those elements, though; Too much of X-Com's mindshare is tied up in the permadeath rookie mill, it's the first thing Johnny On The Street will tell you about it. As for research, frankly it would be weird if your police department had an R&D wing where you're figuring out how lasers work again.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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Aoi

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Re: XCOM: Chimera Squad - XCOM SWAT, releasing April 23
« Reply #48 on: April 17, 2020, 01:02:26 am »

As for research, frankly it would be weird if your police department had an R&D wing where you're figuring out how lasers work again.

I do rather like how XCF handled that one: "You want those fancy guns you see the SWAT team use? Yeah, management thinks you're a joke. Go spend a month of R&D figuring out backchannel sources for a glock."
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Frumple

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Re: XCOM: Chimera Squad - XCOM SWAT, releasing April 23
« Reply #49 on: April 17, 2020, 09:45:53 am »

All I know is I appreciate the canon confirmation of viper brothels. If nothing else, this game can be thanked/cursed for doing that for the Xcom universe.
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Re: XCOM: Chimera Squad - XCOM SWAT, releasing April 23
« Reply #50 on: April 17, 2020, 09:53:49 am »

snek boobs
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ZebioLizard2

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Re: XCOM: Chimera Squad - XCOM SWAT, releasing April 23
« Reply #51 on: April 17, 2020, 01:07:39 pm »

All I know is I appreciate the canon confirmation of viper brothels. If nothing else, this game can be thanked/cursed for doing that for the Xcom universe.
When the devs actually talked about all the surprising amount of rule 34, and posted some image of a Viper statue with it. It was inevitable that they'd give a call out to the fans on that.
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Iduno

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Re: XCOM: Chimera Squad - XCOM SWAT, releasing April 23
« Reply #52 on: April 17, 2020, 01:29:39 pm »

Too much of X-Com's mindshare is tied up in the permadeath rookie mill, it's the first thing Johnny On The Street will tell you about it.

There's a 90% chance you're right.
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Chiefwaffles

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Re: XCOM: Chimera Squad - XCOM SWAT, releasing April 23
« Reply #53 on: April 17, 2020, 01:44:35 pm »

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Quote from: RAM
You should really look to the wilderness for your stealth ideas, it has been doing it much longer than you have after all. Take squids for example, that ink trick works pretty well, and in water too! So you just sneak into the dam upsteam, dump several megatons of distressed squid into it, then break the dam. Boom, you suddenly have enough water-proof stealth for a whole city!

Flying Dice

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Re: XCOM: Chimera Squad - XCOM SWAT, releasing April 23
« Reply #54 on: April 17, 2020, 01:59:44 pm »

i hate to say "it's not x-com" since obviously people have been saying this ever since the firaxis reboot, but

folks, this really isn't x-com. the characters are presets, with specific abilities. it's like Invisible Inc.

i'm guessing there won't be any basebuilding or research, either. i get the feeling it will just be some tactical missions with cutscenes in between.

Honestly it feels like a testbed for ideas they want to use in nuCOM 3.
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Re: XCOM: Chimera Squad - XCOM SWAT, releasing April 23
« Reply #55 on: April 17, 2020, 05:18:25 pm »

All I know is I appreciate the canon confirmation of viper brothels. If nothing else, this game can be thanked/cursed for doing that for the Xcom universe.
I always get warm fuzzy feelings and optimism when games include fan memes like this.


Honestly it feels like a testbed for ideas they want to use in nuCOM 3.
I suspect it's also an attempt at quick cash flow and maybe an interest check, but yeah. Whip something up with what they've already got, toss it out, see what happens.
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Aoi

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Re: XCOM: Chimera Squad - XCOM SWAT, releasing April 23
« Reply #56 on: April 17, 2020, 05:23:26 pm »

Honestly it feels like a testbed for ideas they want to use in nuCOM 3.
I suspect it's also an attempt at quick cash flow and maybe an interest check, but yeah. Whip something up with what they've already got, toss it out, see what happens.

Based on the description, I thought it sounded like an XCOM-flavored tactical mobile game.
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nenjin

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Re: XCOM: Chimera Squad - XCOM SWAT, releasing April 23
« Reply #57 on: April 17, 2020, 05:23:52 pm »

Honestly if it were a $60, then I'd be like "So this is the direction XCOM is going."
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Re: XCOM: Chimera Squad - XCOM SWAT, releasing April 23
« Reply #58 on: April 17, 2020, 06:01:15 pm »

I guess if there's one thing that might be a test for an XCOM 3 is that first-turn breaching mechanic they showed in the few previews we got.
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Yoink

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Re: XCOM: Chimera Squad - XCOM SWAT, releasing April 23
« Reply #59 on: April 17, 2020, 10:36:59 pm »

I'm not sure whether those comments were directed at me, but just in case: I never called this a "betrayal" or anything; the devs can make whatever the hell kind of game they like, more power to 'em. I'm just expressing my disgust with it (and with anyone who would actually play such a thing, obviously).   
I also doubt it's time to start saying that the franchise as a whole is ruined, considering (as people have for some reason felt the need to repeat time and time again in this thread) this is a meaningless spin-off. Perhaps the franchise has been on shaky ground for a while anyway, but oh well. Mainly I'm just not sure why they would waste time and money developing it.   


I'm also not sure why people tend to take any criticism of the game so damn personally, hahaha. At least with the repeated Cataclysm debacles on this very forum people actually had skin in the game - half of the vocal folks were/are actually contributing to the unrelenting chaos of its development.
Here, I'm just not sure. Are y'all on the payroll at Firaxis? No? Then let us bash a crummy up-coming game in peace.   

I am willing to bet that X-Com's usual mix of plot and emergent storytelling will be at least ten times as good as whatever edgy pile of drek they shovel out for this. Most modern-day devs can't be trusted to write a complete story for a game, so I think they were onto a good thing with randomly-generated squaddies and the aforementioned emergent storytelling, one actually game to care about their little redshirts - the smart money says whatever characters they come up with for this will be a puerile mish-mash of cliches and edgelord BS that will have you clawing for the audio options to mute the whole mess even if the VA is top-notch.   


But anyway. That's just, like, my opinion, man.
Hope it doesn't ruffle any feathers. I shall bow out of this thread... at least until the next time I am bored enough to check back and see if anyone's getting mad at me for some reason. >.>   
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