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[fearlesslittletoaster]

I think I've figured out a bug that can severely screw up dwarves in Fort Mode, but before I go filing a bug report I'd love some corroboration from the true mad scientists out there so I can be sure my description/theory isn't sending Toady down a time wasting rabbit hole.

So, it seems some fort members, Dwarves or otherwise, constantly pray with the pink "pray" need to the exclusion of everything else. In my current fort I've got some immigrants who became citizens who worship over 15 gods each, and all of them exhibit this behavior.

But here's the interesting part: they're clearly being driven to pray by a red "unable to pray to X" need, but they never get around to praying to that deity. Instead I'm 90% sure they start praying to the first deity on their list that has any unmet prayer need at all, even if they successfully prayed to that deity much more recently. Then they always pray down their list in the exact order it's shown on their needs page, regardless of how badly they need to pray to the deities listed. And all prayers, regardless of how badly they need to pray to a particular deity, are treated as pink 'urgent' needs when any single deity has an urgent need.

If they get to a green met need for one they will go on to the next deity, I can confirm that. But I have one human bard (now citizen) with the 14th deity on his list as the red badly unmet need. Between how long it takes to pray, occasional interruptions, and eating/drinking/sleeping, even with deliberate isolation I've never seen him make it past number 8. So he's caught in a sort of eternal prayer loop, every prayer listed as a pink "meet now" need, ignoring all other tasks to pray to a god he prayed to last month but the need has gone white...

Has anyone else observed this behavior, or got a different theory as to what's going on?

[mko]

Which version was used to generate this world? One excessive polytheism bug was fixed, but as it occurred at worldgen time you need to recreate world.

[DrCyano]

I think I've seen it in my world too (created with 0.47.03, playing with 0.47.04). I've committed to the world, so I'm not recreating it.

It's not happening to all of my polydeistic citizens, though. At a population of about 15 adult dwarves (I lost a lot of dwarves to an ill-fated infantry charge against a zombie human hammerer), only 2 are constantly praying. I'll take a closer look to see if I can corroborate your finding.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I think I've seen it in my world too (created with 0.47.03, playing with 0.47.04). I've committed to the world, so I'm not recreating it.

It's not happening to all of my polydeistic citizens, though. At a population of about 15 adult dwarves (I lost a lot of dwarves to an ill-fated infantry charge against a zombie human hammerer), only 2 are constantly praying. I'll take a closer look to see if I can corroborate your finding.

The fix was in 47.04, and involved generating history with less gods for civs, so won't change just by upgrading.

So far I haven't had a dwarf in 47.04 with enough gods to screw himself up like this.

[mko]

I think I've seen it in my world too (created with 0.47.03, playing with 0.47.04). I've committed to the world, so I'm not recreating it.

It's not happening to all of my polydeistic citizens, though. At a population of about 15 adult dwarves (I lost a lot of dwarves to an ill-fated infantry charge against a zombie human hammerer), only 2 are constantly praying. I'll take a closer look to see if I can corroborate your finding.

I guess that dwarves may have different level of piety? And pray more/less often? Or maybe it takes some time for this needs to accumulate.

[Lozzymandias]

I have had some success ( i don't know why) wuith designating many (20 odd) meeting spaces all to a temple with no particular god. Basically i found dedicating many different  temples to different gods didn't work because dwarves would try pray to the wrong gods (or get stuck in a purple "worship"" state) in the wrong temple. For some reason, a single temple for all gods helps them choose the right god to pray to. You do need to give them plenty of downtime though.

[DrCyano]

I think I've seen it in my world too (created with 0.47.03, playing with 0.47.04). I've committed to the world, so I'm not recreating it.

It's not happening to all of my polydeistic citizens, though. At a population of about 15 adult dwarves (I lost a lot of dwarves to an ill-fated infantry charge against a zombie human hammerer), only 2 are constantly praying. I'll take a closer look to see if I can corroborate your finding.

The fix was in 47.04, and involved generating history with less gods for civs, so won't change just by upgrading.

So far I haven't had a dwarf in 47.04 with enough gods to screw himself up like this.

The 0.47.04 update reduced the number of deities in world generation, but it's still a bug if worshippers cannot figure out which one they should pray to to fulfill their strongest need.

[Ziusudra]

Seems to have been an issue before 0.47:
https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=10546
https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=10918

[fearlesslittletoaster]

Which version was used to generate this world? One excessive polytheism bug was fixed, but as it occurred at worldgen time you need to recreate world.

0.47.04, the most recent download and without any mods, not even a graphics pack. Prior to install I wiped the previous version too, so this is as clean a copy of the current build as exists. 

[fearlesslittletoaster]

I think I've seen it in my world too (created with 0.47.03, playing with 0.47.04). I've committed to the world, so I'm not recreating it.

It's not happening to all of my polydeistic citizens, though. At a population of about 15 adult dwarves (I lost a lot of dwarves to an ill-fated infantry charge against a zombie human hammerer), only 2 are constantly praying. I'll take a closer look to see if I can corroborate your finding.

The fix was in 47.04, and involved generating history with less gods for civs, so won't change just by upgrading.

So far I haven't had a dwarf in 47.04 with enough gods to screw himself up like this.

Yeah, its in the current build without mods. And I haven't gotten any dwarves with this issue, it's all Human/Goblin/Elf immigrants.

[mko]

If it persists in the current unmodded build, with world created in the most recent build and is not reported then uploading save to DDF and creating bug report at https://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/my_view_page.php is a good idea.

[Lozzymandias]

I think its worth noting that this bug appears to be two bugs disguised as one.
1) dwarves don't automatically pray to the right gods to satisfy their most pressing need
2) dwarves have too many gods to pray to

they're related, after a fashion. A dwarf that can pull itself away from non-specific worship and work through its god list can hold down a surprisingly large number of gods (this is the case in my pre 0.47.03 world), he just needs an unreasonable amount of down-time.

A dwarf that can't will certainly struggle with 10 gods. but he might struggle with 3

[Shonai_Dweller]

I think its worth noting that this bug appears to be two bugs disguised as one.
1) dwarves don't automatically pray to the right gods to satisfy their most pressing need
2) dwarves have too many gods to pray to

they're related, after a fashion. A dwarf that can pull itself away from non-specific worship and work through its god list can hold down a surprisingly large number of gods (this is the case in my pre 0.47.03 world), he just needs an unreasonable amount of down-time.

A dwarf that can't will certainly struggle with 10 gods. but he might struggle with 3

2 isn't a thing. It was fixed. Unless you have a save (generated in 47.04) that proves otherwise.

[Lozzymandias]

I think its worth noting that this bug appears to be two bugs disguised as one.
1) dwarves don't automatically pray to the right gods to satisfy their most pressing need
2) dwarves have too many gods to pray to

they're related, after a fashion. A dwarf that can pull itself away from non-specific worship and work through its god list can hold down a surprisingly large number of gods (this is the case in my pre 0.47.03 world), he just needs an unreasonable amount of down-time.

A dwarf that can't will certainly struggle with 10 gods. but he might struggle with 3

2 isn't a thing. It was fixed. Unless you have a save (generated in 47.04) that proves otherwise.

2 is a thing, for historic (pre fix) worlds (which you may want to continue playing). There is value in speaking accurately about the exact nature of the bug, if you can find workarounds for parts of it (if you want to continue playing said historic worlds). That was the purpose of my post. This place is not Mantis.

[fearlesslittletoaster]

2 isn't a thing. It was fixed. Unless you have a save (generated in 47.04) that proves otherwise.

It may be fixed for Dwarves, but it's very much alive for immigrants. I have a save from 47.04 with a human poet trying to hold down 15 gods. No time right now, but I'll get it uploaded in a bit if you want to take a poke at it.