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[The-Moon]

quote:Originally posted by Zonhin:
<STRONG>Dwarf Fortress is hardly popular enough to have a publisher buy it. And I doubt it ever will be. Dwarf Fortress is a good game, granted, but it isn't for everybody. It's a niche game. Any talk of publishing is a pipe dream; it ain't gunna happen.</STRONG>

What game is for everyone?

All game genera's have there own groups of people who dislike and like them.

I think a lot of people like DF, and i think a lot more people would be playing it, if there was a standard set of gfx to use.

I currently use > http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=21883&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0  

with the newest version of DF.

If it wasn't for the gfx i wouldn't be here today, or even be able to play.

So i think DF would gain a lot more popularity if toady just added in some basic gfx like this.

In fact i'm a "Dabbling" pixel artist myself(well maybe "Novice"), and if toady asked for GFX submissions, i would be more then happy to start drawing things up for him, completely free of charge  

DF too me is the end all for games. Theres no game out there better then DF, aside from maybe thief 1 and 2. But other then that nothing even really comes close.

Edit: Also, i recommend you Toady, do not sell out to any publishers. Never sell out the rights to this game. Not saying you shouldn't take up any contracts to allow publishers to publish and sell the game for you. But never release owner ship to no one.

[ February 06, 2008: Message edited by: The-Moon ]

[helium]

Why would Toady waste time on adding gfx when there is a perfect system for using player made sprites? Also having gfx as default wouldn't add anything as the graphic mongrels still would demand animations and so on.

If you are to illiterate to grasp ASCII then feel free to make your own or download a gfx-pack but most people playing this game still prefer ASCII.

[Red Jackard]

quote:Originally posted by The-Moon:
<STRONG>I think a lot of people like DF, and i think a lot more people would be playing it, if there was a standard set of gfx to use.</STRONG>

He plans to add wider support for them, not the graphics themselves...

[The-Moon]

quote:Originally posted by helium:
<STRONG>Why would Toady waste time on adding gfx when there is a perfect system for using player made sprites? Also having gfx as default wouldn't add anything as the graphic mongrels still would demand animations and so on.

If you are to illiterate to grasp ASCII then feel free to make your own or download a gfx-pack but most people playing this game still prefer ASCII.</STRONG>

He doesn't need to "add" gfx. Mainly just include them with the download. That way we don't have to search/make our own. Thats really all i'm suggesting, is for he to include some player made gfx as a standard set. Wouldn't take much time other then including the bitmaps in with the package.

I did not mean for him to change anything from the way it is. Only to just include the gfx when you download the game.

Is this unreasonable?

[ February 06, 2008: Message edited by: The-Moon ]

[Bricktop]

Graphic support is already planned for the game... but it won't be added in for a long time. From what Toady has said in various threads (and some interview I heard) I think he doesn't want to mess around too much with graphics and the UI because it just makes the updates more difficult.

[Rictus]

Given the toss up between more time spent on the gameplay and time spent on graphics, I choose gameplay. Bay12Games is only a two man outfit, and there are only a finite amount of hours in the day.

[The-Moon]

quote:Originally posted by Rictus:
<STRONG>Given the toss up between more time spent on the gameplay and time spent on graphics, I choose gameplay. Bay12Games is only a two man outfit, and there are only a finite amount of hours in the day.</STRONG>

I second that. Still leaves my suggestion valid tho.

[Red Jackard]

quote:Originally posted by The-Moon:
<STRONG>He doesn't need to "add" gfx. Mainly just include them with the download. That way we don't have to search/make our own.</STRONG>

They are not that difficult to find. Especially since there is now a link to them in the init file...

[ February 06, 2008: Message edited by: Red Jackard ]

[Zonhin]

quote:Originally posted by The-Moon:
<STRONG>

What game is for everyone?

All game genera's have there own groups of people who dislike and like them.

I think a lot of people like DF, and i think a lot more people would be playing it, if there was a standard set of gfx to use.

I currently use > http://www.rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=21883&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0  

with the newest version of DF.

If it wasn't for the gfx i wouldn't be here today, or even be able to play.

So i think DF would gain a lot more popularity if toady just added in some basic gfx like this.

In fact i'm a "Dabbling" pixel artist myself(well maybe "Novice"), and if toady asked for GFX submissions, i would be more then happy to start drawing things up for him, completely free of charge    

DF too me is the end all for games. Theres no game out there better then DF, aside from maybe thief 1 and 2. But other then that nothing even really comes close.

Edit: Also, i recommend you Toady, do not sell out to any publishers. Never sell out the rights to this game. Not saying you shouldn't take up any contracts to allow publishers to publish and sell the game for you. But never release owner ship to no one.

[ February 06, 2008: Message edited by: The-Moon ]</STRONG>

When I said it wasn't for everyone, I was saying it was an unpopular game. Don't have delusions that it isn't. It's loved by a lot of people, but those people are a niche audience. The game is hardly going to be popular enough to get a publishing deal. There's a difference between a "good" game and a "marketable" one. I'll tell you the truth here. If Dwarf Fortress cost me money, I probably wouldn't play it. Simple as that. It would never capture my attention.

[Zonhin]

quote:Originally posted by helium:
<STRONG>Why would Toady waste time on adding gfx when there is a perfect system for using player made sprites? Also having gfx as default wouldn't add anything as the graphic mongrels still would demand animations and so on.

If you are to illiterate to grasp ASCII then feel free to make your own or download a gfx-pack but most people playing this game still prefer ASCII.</STRONG>

Shut up. Graphics make the game better, ASCII makes it worse. You'd be surprised how much a game looking good can improve it as a whole. Also, theres a difference between looking good and having advanced graphics. Take Knytt for instance. It looks good. It doesn't have advanced graphics, but it looks good. Dwarf Fortress on the other hand, is an ugly motherfucker. Really. It's hideous. It's not an urgent need, but if graphics were improved a little bit after UI, I would be incredibly grateful.

[apache1990]

code:

...☼.☼.
..S@☼☼.
..²☼☼.²
.......

That is win.

[Zonhin]

quote:Originally posted by apache1990:
<STRONG>

code:

...☼.☼.
..S@☼☼.
..²☼☼.²
.......

That is win.</STRONG>

So er... what does that have to do with anything?

[apache1990]

It's ASCII.

[Eagle of Fire]

quote:Shut up. Graphics make the game better, ASCII makes it worse. You'd be surprised how much a game looking good can improve it as a whole. Also, theres a difference between looking good and having advanced graphics. Take Knytt for instance. It looks good. It doesn't have advanced graphics, but it looks good. Dwarf Fortress on the other hand, is an ugly motherfucker. Really. It's hideous. It's not an urgent need, but if graphics were improved a little bit after UI, I would be incredibly grateful.

I made a search someday about a completely unrelated topic, but I found a thread talking about how graphics are absolutly needed to DF to have a good game. That thread, if I remember well, dated from 2004. Rofl.

If you don't like it, beat it and don't play it. Enough said...

[Lord Licorice]

quote:Originally posted by Zonhin:
<STRONG>When I said it wasn't for everyone, I was saying it was an unpopular game.</STRONG>

facepalm.jpg

I know what you were trying to say, and I agree with you, but if you could turn off the SA goon trolling mentality for half a minute and reconsider the terms you use before you use them...

quote:Originally posted by Zonhin:
<STRONG>Graphics make the game better, ASCII makes it worse. You'd be surprised how much a game looking good can improve it as a whole. Also, theres a difference between looking good and having advanced graphics. Take Knytt for instance. It looks good. It doesn't have advanced graphics, but it looks good. Dwarf Fortress on the other hand, is an ugly motherfucker. Really. It's hideous. It's not an urgent need, but if graphics were improved a little bit after UI, I would be incredibly grateful.</STRONG>

I'm honestly curious, and this is more a question to everyone that thinks a graphical update would improve gameplay: What do you propose exactly? Aside from simply making the game 3D, of course. Looking at Knytt, it does seem to have a minimalist beauty to it; it's pretty and uses simple art techniques to present itself.

What would you want to add or change about the game's presentation that would improve it graphically enough to make it no longer an "ugly motherfucker?" If you put Angband in a modified Unreal engine, does that improve the gameplay in any significant fashion or does it just raise the players' expectations? A lot of the way DF works is because of its graphical minimalism and representational nature of ASCII.

Do you want animated tilesets?  Do you want attack animations?  Sound effects?  Individual tiles for every game entity?  What?  I'm serious, I just don't follow.  You can point at a game and say, "X should be improved!", but I'm not really understanding in what fashion you intend it to improve.

I haven't put forth my own stance yet, but I think the game should remain 2D tile-based, and let Toady get to implementing further support for tilesets when he gets around to them.  For the record, I do not currently want a 3D version of the game.  (Though that isometric pastel-colored mock-up picture is rather enticing... no, I must resist!)

Don't think it's because I am a giant neckbeard that enjoys the pain of squinting at ASCII, either; I use tilesets to help me better "read" the game at a glance, myself. If someone has a particularly valid suggestion that still keeps the game 2D-tilebased, I'd be interested to hear it described.