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Author Topic: Crazy angry religous dwarf problem  (Read 4727 times)

Bloodyharbinger

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Crazy angry religous dwarf problem
« on: March 19, 2020, 02:51:45 pm »

So I have a dwarf who is 'He is in a constant state of internal rage.' and has about 30 Deities. I noticed he was getting stressed out so gave him a break.

But now he is sitting in one of the temples 'Worship!' all the time, to the point he can't seem to do much else.

This is in turn generating loads of 'He was frustrated after being unable to pray to XXX for too long' and not being able to socialize with others.

I feel like it is only a matter of time before he goes on a tantrum- any thoughts on what all I can do to sooth his rage? (Before he is exiled forever!)

Here are things I have so far:
Embark has a waterfall which is used to create mist on every floor
Pimped out his room
Legendary dinning hall

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Eric Blank

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Re: Crazy angry religous dwarf problem
« Reply #1 on: March 19, 2020, 04:21:59 pm »

I've found in such cases, there is nothing that can be done. In fact, in most cases where a dwarf begins to become stressed, they will inevitably become haggard even if you provide every opportunity to fill every possible need, and nice luxuries just don't have the effect they used to.

Drop a bridge on his head. Or better yet, flip him on his head/drop a bridge out from under him so the doctors can get some practice in.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2020, 04:24:03 pm by Eric Blank »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Crazy angry religous dwarf problem
« Reply #2 on: March 19, 2020, 06:28:52 pm »

30 deities? Are you playing 47.04?
If so that's not good as it should have been fixed, I guess it didn't work well enough. Report either on the release thread or on the bug tracker.
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UselessMcMiner

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Re: Crazy angry religous dwarf problem
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2020, 06:29:51 pm »

It could be he was worshipping gods from other Pantheons. Dwarves can worship Human and maybe other gods I'm not exactly sure.
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Bloodyharbinger

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Re: Crazy angry religous dwarf problem
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2020, 06:54:54 pm »

Drop a bridge on his head. Or better yet, flip him on his head/drop a bridge out from under him so the doctors can get some practice in.

Seems like that is what is going to be needed haha.

30 deities? Are you playing 47.04?
If so that's not good as it should have been fixed, I guess it didn't work well enough. Report either on the release thread or on the bug tracker.

AH it is 47.03--- and i see the patch says it is fixed. I will have to update I guess.
« Last Edit: March 19, 2020, 06:56:30 pm by Bloodyharbinger »
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Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Crazy angry religous dwarf problem
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2020, 07:15:03 pm »

Drop a bridge on his head. Or better yet, flip him on his head/drop a bridge out from under him so the doctors can get some practice in.

Seems like that is what is going to be needed haha.

30 deities? Are you playing 47.04?
If so that's not good as it should have been fixed, I guess it didn't work well enough. Report either on the release thread or on the bug tracker.

AH it is 47.03--- and i see the patch says it is fixed. I will have to update I guess.
Ah, yeah, mostly it's better now.
You'll need a new world to see the effects though.

Also, one thing you can try if you want to stick with 47.03 is to remove native religion from dwarf civs altogether (remove [RELIGION:PANTHEON] from dwarf entity in entity_default.txt.

If you do that, they'll actually pick up a few human religions and occasionally an elf one. But they won't have tons. Much more manageable. Some dwarves will have no religion to worry about at all (depends on where they lived before - sites near human settlements are more susceptible to religious influence).

It's different in each world, but you usually get a good mix between religious and non-religious dwarves (in my experience anyway).
« Last Edit: March 19, 2020, 07:22:04 pm by Shonai_Dweller »
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Naryar

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Re: Crazy angry religous dwarf problem
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2020, 09:26:58 pm »

I think there are some dwarves that still have a bunch of figures of worship in the new version, and that still spend most of their time in the temple. Though it IS noticeably better than in the previous version.

If you don't feel like killing them, you can exile them. I usually do that for dwarves that become crippled or dwarves that are constantly sad and spam Attend Meeting jobs without much improvement in their mood.

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Crazy angry religous dwarf problem
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2020, 09:48:22 pm »

I think there are some dwarves that still have a bunch of figures of worship in the new version, and that still spend most of their time in the temple. Though it IS noticeably better than in the previous version.

If you don't feel like killing them, you can exile them. I usually do that for dwarves that become crippled or dwarves that are constantly sad and spam Attend Meeting jobs without much improvement in their mood.
I haven't seen any "worships the entire pantheon" dwarves in 47.04 yet. Multiple gods, yes but we always had them.

And really, a dwarf arrives who wants to spend more time praying than the overseer would like, and will sulk if not allowed to, that's a fairly realistic problem to have. Have their workplace near the temple, give them regular religious breaks, it's a solvable problems, if you want to solve one Dwarf's issues (which you're under no obligation to).

Too many gods to be able to do anything at all but desperately pray while your spirit crumbles is the buggy issue to avoid, I think.
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snow dwarf

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Re: Crazy angry religous dwarf problem
« Reply #8 on: March 20, 2020, 10:53:24 am »

I think there are some dwarves that still have a bunch of figures of worship in the new version, and that still spend most of their time in the temple. Though it IS noticeably better than in the previous version.

If you don't feel like killing them, you can exile them. I usually do that for dwarves that become crippled or dwarves that are constantly sad and spam Attend Meeting jobs without much improvement in their mood.
I haven't seen any "worships the entire pantheon" dwarves in 47.04 yet. Multiple gods, yes but we always had them.

And really, a dwarf arrives who wants to spend more time praying than the overseer would like, and will sulk if not allowed to, that's a fairly realistic problem to have. Have their workplace near the temple, give them regular religious breaks, it's a solvable problems, if you want to solve one Dwarf's issues (which you're under no obligation to).

Too many gods to be able to do anything at all but desperately pray while your spirit crumbles is the buggy issue to avoid, I think.

Agreed. If it's fixable in game then it's not an actual issue. And yeah. It requires micro managing your dwarf. But everything does require micro management in this game, so it's not like that changes much ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Dunamisdeos

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Re: Crazy angry religous dwarf problem
« Reply #9 on: March 20, 2020, 07:32:00 pm »

o/

I think the rage thing is just a general trait. Like the "prone to anger" one that is randomly rolled per dwarf.
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vjek

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Re: Crazy angry religous dwarf problem
« Reply #10 on: March 20, 2020, 11:09:42 pm »

In 47.04 (and every version from 47.01+) I haven't been able to find a dwarf who is focused after meeting the need for PrayOrMeditate.
Even after exclaiming "I have communed with $godname.  I am filled with wonder." the need is still unmet.
Changing their needs so they only need they have is to pray, and watching them all pray and meditate for days, weeks, and months, continually, pausing only to eat, drink, and sleep?
Still increasingly unfocused, distracted, etc from being unable to pray.  The need is never met, even with constant prayer.
I haven't been able to artificially satisfy the need, nor have I seen it satisfied in an unmodified/unhacked 47.04 game, so far. 
It may be happening, but for a certainty, it's extremely rare, in my games/worlds, if it is happening.
For now, I have adjusted all my dwarves so that the PrayOrMeditate need is zero (testing aside) so they will instead be focused from Socializing, Admiring Art, and so on, which all work just fine.

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Crazy angry religous dwarf problem
« Reply #11 on: March 20, 2020, 11:14:08 pm »

In 47.04 (and every version from 47.01+) I haven't been able to find a dwarf who is focused after meeting the need for PrayOrMeditate.
Even after exclaiming "I have communed with $godname.  I am filled with wonder." the need is still unmet.
Changing their needs so they only need they have is to pray, and watching them all pray and meditate for days, weeks, and months, continually, pausing only to eat, drink, and sleep?
Still increasingly unfocused, distracted, etc from being unable to pray.  The need is never met, even with constant prayer.
I haven't been able to artificially satisfy the need, nor have I seen it satisfied in an unmodified/unhacked 47.04 game, so far. 
It may be happening, but for a certainty, it's extremely rare, in my games/worlds, if it is happening.
For now, I have adjusted all my dwarves so that the PrayOrMeditate need is zero (testing aside) so they will instead be focused from Socializing, Admiring Art, and so on, which all work just fine.
There are strong needs and weak needs. Take a look at Adventurer setup which lays it out clearer. If a dwarf has a weak need to pray, praying won't make up for all their other missing needs.

Having said that it's fairly trivial to meet a couple of needs and get them focussed again. There are impossible to meet needs, but there aren't many impossible to solve yellow-arrow, unfocussed dorfs these days (intelligent undead being a notable exception).
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vjek

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Re: Crazy angry religous dwarf problem
« Reply #12 on: March 20, 2020, 11:57:19 pm »

Yeah, I've tried the needs with various values, from 0 to 5.  For praying, it's identical behavior at 1 through 5.
If the need exists at all, it is never met, that I can see, even with continuous praying.
The higher the value, the more they pray, and the greater the negative when it's not met.
They all have continuous down arrows flashing on their icons, while they're praying, continuously.

Shonai_Dweller

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Re: Crazy angry religous dwarf problem
« Reply #13 on: March 21, 2020, 12:20:32 am »

Yeah, I've tried the needs with various values, from 0 to 5.  For praying, it's identical behavior at 1 through 5.
If the need exists at all, it is never met, that I can see, even with continuous praying.
The higher the value, the more they pray, and the greater the negative when it's not met.
They all have continuous down arrows flashing on their icons, while they're praying, continuously.
Yellow or red? Red are unrelated.

Still, it's working as intended for one single need not to solve all your dorfs problems. It certainly used to change dorfs from unfocussed for not praying to focused for praying (only for that need, not overall of course). Works in Adventurer too although that may be more forgiving. Will check current fortress status.

--edit

Checked out my current fortress. Dorf with two gods, he's got two  unfocussed thoughts fom not praying to either but is in the temple right now. Prays to one, he's now unfettered after praying to his god. He's got one more god need to sort out, but more urgently is probably his need to be with friends, family and to make romance. Gotta give him some time to manage that.

His sister is in the fortress, but his lover isn't. Maybe if I.....nah, forget that.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 21, 2020, 03:31:35 am by Shonai_Dweller »
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vjek

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Re: Crazy angry religous dwarf problem
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2020, 09:15:38 am »

Continuous downward flashing yellow arrow, while praying.
Again, if it's the only need?  permanently unfocused.  While trying to meet the need, continuously unfocused.
If praying is not a need, everything works perfectly, with respect to focus.  If any other need is there with praying, they will never pray.  If praying is the only need, they only pray, and never meet the need.
It doesn't matter the fort or circumstance, I've never seen a met need from a praying dwarf in 47.01, 02, 03 or 04.  Saw it work fine in previous versions.
Can you upload the fort you're referring to, to DFFD, which has a dwarf with a needs-met prayer?
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