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[dikbutdagrate]

Welcome back, Bralbaard!

 Plus, I like the world still having classical civilizations.

Well, it was only the human civs which became raccoon civs. And their population was split pretty 50/50 between raccoons and humans at all of their sites. Interestingly, the tinkering seems to have significantly revitalized all of the human civs, and dramatically increased their populations. If someone familiar with the previous census years for Orid Xem wants to compare stats for novelty's sake, I'd encourage it. Also, while I'm not interested in actually doing this, part of me still wants to create a fork of the Museum III, where the raccoon timeline continues, and the goal of the museum is to switch its gimmick over to a used furniture and discount artifact store. And to sell all of the items for reasonability amounts of currency. The goal of adventurers then being to collect currency through whatever means. Lol, but nah. Fuck that.

I remember when the oddest thing in Orid Xem was the lesbian cyclops angels and the incest scorpions…

The what? Wtf? I haven't heard about that, I don't think.

I haven’t posted my last adventurers turn yet and I’d like to do that before my next turn. In any case I won’t be able to start until at least Monday due to other commitments.

If someone else wants to take a turn now I’m fine with that otherwise I’ll start next week.

If that's the case, maybe I'll redo part of my turn. I was pretty happy about the blood sky. And its one of the changes no one seemed opposed to. I was rather surprised when I stumbled into figuring out how to change it. I'm still a little confused about why it would only consistently render itself in fort mode. In adv mode it was picky, and I didn't have enough time to conduct tests to determine what exactly it was being picky about. Maybe this time I'll make it black instead, and go for a perpetual solar eclipse. A constant full moon requires having an automated script that runs every time a map loads however, which sets the lunar phase to full, and I sort of like having things just work, even without DFhack.

[Lurker Z]

I remember when the oddest thing in Orid Xem was the lesbian cyclops angels and the incest scorpions…

The what? Wtf? I haven't heard about that, I don't think.

I know of the second for sure.

If someone else wants to take a turn now I’m fine with that otherwise I’ll start next week.

I'm fine with waiting.

I tried to update the list, without knowing if Erik, dik or QD want new turns, or if someone else asked and we missed them, it goes something like this:

Turn 159: Kesperan <- Current Turn
Turn 160: Maloy
Turn 161: AvolitionBrit
Turn 162: Lurker Z

Reminder to anyone that might be lurking that anyone who has an account and wants a turn is welcomed to request one in this thread.

[Bralbaard]

I'm fine with waiting as well. I've updated the turn list, making Lurker's interpretation the official list. If you want anything changed, tell me.

I remember when the oddest thing in Orid Xem was the lesbian cyclops angels and the incest scorpions…

The what? Wtf? I haven't heard about that, I don't think.

I know of the second for sure.

The first is a factual description of facts as well. No Dfhack involved either. Sometimes things get completely out of hand on their own.
I think it was Maloy that resurrected some angels somewhere in a vault and to his surprise they were not raised as undead but fully alive. That strain of angels were female only, and procreated like crazy, because they were born as adults, or something like that. In any case, I think a large part of the lesbian cyclops cult  used to hang out at Razorbridge, if my memory is correct, but that was probably centuries ago.

Also, Dickbutdagrate, feel free to make a fork of the museum game for dfhack experiments, that would be a bit safer than having more changes to the main game.
 

[Maloy]

I've tried spreading the angels around a bit so their are some all over the world!

Furthest I've placed them is in the realm of silver


What is neat is that wherever the angels are born they adopt the beliefs, names and values of that civilization. I haven't given any to the goblins yet, but angel invasions would be wild lol

[Lurker Z]

What is neat is that wherever the angels are born they adopt the beliefs, names and values of that civilization.

That's true for all creatures. There are at least some humans in Malladang with goblin names, beliefs and even actions (i.e. murdering each other as part of plot) from way before year 700. In Dwarf Fortress, it seems nurture certainly trumps nature.

I haven't given any to the goblins yet, but angel invasions would be wild lol

That sounds terrifying. On the other hand, they had at some point around 6000 trolls, so it wouldn't be that much of a change.


One thing I am curious about is if towns repopulate with racoons in a hypothetical fork. I've had this theory that if the majority of a species is not of that civilization's original species, its settlements will spawn members of that now majority species, but I found no concrete proof. There was certainly a bat-men dynasty of rulers in Mudungudon that took over a dwarven civilization. I suspect this is what happened with the goblins of Ribiromimi. On the other hand, Adilatír is getting overrun by humans, but I don't see it spawning humans outside abstract populations in hillocks. Curious.


Racoon Apocalypse article is up.


I don't want to steal dik's thunder, but his idea of forking the Museum after the Racoon Apocalypse brought out ideas I had for some time. I have a whole category of Orid Xem Elsewhere worlds on the wiki. My idea was that instead of a thread to a single other timeline, we'd have one where we'd explore the different timelines of what-could-have-been. Especially with the ability to restart the world and knowing it'll keep the same characters until roughly year 50. We could even import the sites from the original Museum (I've verified that it works at the very least in Fortress Mode) so we'd have the updated sites from the 12th century or however long the main Museum lasts, to wherever we play the alternate save. The big restriction is that it has to be the old 3x3 dwarf sites that were created before the save starts (so they'd have the same site ID and would be in the same place).

[WonderPsycho]

I'm fine with waiting as well. I've updated the turn list, making Lurker's interpretation the official list. If you want anything changed, tell me.

yoooo welcome back bralbaard, nice to see you again

[Bralbaard]

Hey Wonderpsycho, good to see you around as well.

I was curious what the anti-rapture did to population numbers, and updated the graphs:



I did not download all the save games obviously, so it is based on a limited set of datapoints for the 12th century, but the anti-rapture is easily visible. Turns out that the forces behind the anti-rapture did not really like humans, and favoured goblins over all other races. Goblin numbers increased by approximately a factor 7.5 whereas the other races were all around 1.5 or lower.

[Lurker Z]

Turns out that the forces behind the anti-rapture did not really like humans, and favoured goblins over all other races. Goblin numbers increased by approximately a factor 7.5 whereas the other races were all around 1.5 or lower.

I think I've mentioned it in the article too, but it isn't that the Anti-Rapture did not favor mortals. It is that the mortals died of old age (which for lore purposes I called Rapture Sickness) at most a year after the Anti-Rapture. The Anti-Rapture favored immortals – elves, goblins, vampires, necromancers etc. Considering that in the year 700 there were about that many goblins and more were generated by the game, only to be killed by adventurers and repeat, this is how it got to this situation.

Also, sadly you can't interact with the Returned in adventure mode, but you can have some of them as bodiless visitors in fortress mode. They will die in a few ticks if you don't heal them with dfhack though.

[Bralbaard]

That makes sense. So populations must have been much higher right after the anti-rapture. I can't make that visible, as Dikbutdagrates save is no longer available. But good to know.

[jecowa]

What happened to all the humans in around the year 700?

[Lurker Z]

What happened to all the humans in around the year 700?

I was talking about the goblin population in the year 700, which was 71k. Adventurers and wars killed many of them, but more kept spawning, so when they were all resurrected, they numbered at around 100k.

The humans have overtaken the dwarves of Adilatír at a ratio of 6:1 inside just that civilization, but a lot of them as in clumps of 100 in hillocks and are abstract populations (see quantum flux) and most of which I interacted with my character say they're not even loyal to Adilatír. Additionally, Adilatír has dozens of barons, but none are humans. And there being more humans than dwarves has been happening for over a century. It's a strange situation where the abstract numbers do not conform to what you interact with in fortress/adventure mode.

Also there were situations where entire towns were depopulated because they had hundreds of abstract population that just evaporated when an adventured entered there and the game readjusted the numbers (see Silver Plague).

[Maloy]

Do you think that is because those humans posses a dual loyalty to a human civilization? Maybe the game doesn't state it outright, but beings with conflicting loyalties have a ranking system on which loyalty is higher and in this case for the humans it is the original human government their ancestors belonged to centuries ago.


Would explain Maloy's kingdom. I've essentially got my own political and religious class sprouting parallel to the Dwarven one, but not in rebellion against it.

[Lurker Z]

I don't have Legends Viewer right now to confirm, but from what I remember, it was a weird and likely specific chain of events: a player would play fortresses as Adilatír, after long enough hillocks would spawn, those hillocks were in Sastapor (see this) territory so they were filled with abstract humans. Once you talked to them, they were loyal only to Sastpesor, members of Cuthomkacnu and exclusive worshipers of Hibor Omahathur. I don't know by how much and I don't think I'll ever have a way to find out, but I think this weird chain of events has propelled that religion and Hibor from obscure entities to top 10 religions/most worshiped Gods in Orid Xem.

You do have a point on how there are no rebellions. Maybe because the humans are part of a religious order, they can't rebel? The only religious order rebellions and takeovers I've seen were by groups who had a blighted thrall.

It's not the case here, but I think being dual citizen doesn't lead to anything if they're only members of two civilizations, but no groups. I have seen creatures only members of civilizations, and creatures only members of groups. I think rebellions trigger only when there are two (warring?) non-civilization powerful groups in a location.

[Bralbaard]

What happened to all the humans in around the year 700?

You mean the collapse just after 700? There was an odd thing at the start of the game where many human cities came out of worldgen with large populations. For some reason they just dissapeared when an adventurer visited those sites.

[jecowa]

The human settlements lied on the census, and it was corrected when the adventuring censors visited for inspection.