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Author Topic: How does Crossbow combat work?  (Read 1110 times)

101Dominations

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How does Crossbow combat work?
« on: February 10, 2020, 08:12:19 pm »

I've got a fort set up with a castle design surrounding my main entrance down into the fortress, and above the gates (ground level) is a pathway with fortifications along the perimeter of the wall below for crossbow dwarves to shoot through down into the z-level below. However, whenever I station my crossbow dwarves around said pathway, they don't seem to shoot anything, and when set to kill the enemy through the (s) screen, they tend to just walk through the gates (if open), and get themselves killed that way.

TL;DR: What are the requirements for crossbow dwarves to shoot and kill enemies?
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kaijyuu

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Re: How does Crossbow combat work?
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2020, 09:14:49 pm »

They need line of sight. To shoot downward through fortifications, the wall needs to be several tiles (>8 or so) away from whatever they're trying to shoot, otherwise the floor they're standing on and the floor beneath the fortification gets in the way. And that's only for a single z-level drop; any more and they probably won't be able to hit anything on the ground at all.
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Re: How does Crossbow combat work?
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2020, 09:32:26 pm »

They also need to have ammo on them, I think it needs to be in quivers but I may be misremembering.  Be a good idea to check their inventory to make sure they are carrying bolts or else they may decide to use their crossbows as ineffective wooden warhammers instead.
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Orkel

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Re: How does Crossbow combat work?
« Reply #3 on: February 11, 2020, 06:53:16 am »

Crossbowdwarves should always be inside an enclosed bunker. If they can climb out, they will climb out and get themselves killed. Build a roof using floors.

Even inside an enclosed fortification bunker they can still bug straight through the fortifications if unlucky.

They need line of sight. To shoot downward through fortifications, the wall needs to be several tiles (>8 or so) away from whatever they're trying to shoot, otherwise the floor they're standing on and the floor beneath the fortification gets in the way. And that's only for a single z-level drop; any more and they probably won't be able to hit anything on the ground at all.

Isn't it 1 tile blindspot per 1 z-level? If your wall is only 1 z-level above ground level it means the archers right next to the fortifications can shoot everything 2 or more tiles away (but not right next to the wall).
« Last Edit: February 11, 2020, 06:58:14 am by Orkel »
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Ant

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Re: How does Crossbow combat work?
« Reply #4 on: February 11, 2020, 08:50:53 am »

IIRC building walls out of rough stone and then engraving fortifications in a roofed bunker prevents climbing through fortifications, at least in Waxedbells it worked fine.
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PatrikLundell

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Re: How does Crossbow combat work?
« Reply #5 on: February 11, 2020, 11:58:30 am »

IIRC building walls out of rough stone and then engraving fortifications in a roofed bunker prevents climbing through fortifications, at least in Waxedbells it worked fine.
You either build fortifications or engrave them in "native" stone (includes cast obsidian). You can't engrave fortifications in built walls.
As Orkel said, a roof prevents climbing over fortifications, but if you build fortifications you have to ensure you build a floor on top of them, not only on top of the interior, while carved fortifications automatically get a roof over their tiles.
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Bumber

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Re: How does Crossbow combat work?
« Reply #6 on: February 11, 2020, 12:00:33 pm »

IIRC building walls out of rough stone and then engraving fortifications in a roofed bunker prevents climbing through fortifications, at least in Waxedbells it worked fine.
I doubt it. Any fortification can be jumped or dodged through. It's not a common occurrence, though.

You can't engrave fortifications in built walls.
Yes you can.
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Re: How does Crossbow combat work?
« Reply #7 on: February 11, 2020, 03:34:11 pm »

In my experience, I've had good results locking my marksdwarves into whatever area they are expected to shoot out from, and putting a supply of bolts in there directly.
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CyberianK

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Re: How does Crossbow combat work?
« Reply #8 on: February 11, 2020, 03:49:03 pm »

They need line of sight. To shoot downward through fortifications, the wall needs to be several tiles (>8 or so) away from whatever they're trying to shoot, otherwise the floor they're standing on and the floor beneath the fortification gets in the way. And that's only for a single z-level drop; any more and they probably won't be able to hit anything on the ground at all.


8 tiles horizontal for one vertical seems pretty insane! So any high above ground tower like 4+ z levels over z0 will never work?
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Sver

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Re: How does Crossbow combat work?
« Reply #9 on: February 11, 2020, 04:45:23 pm »

Ain't 8 tiles for 1 vertical as far as I could observe, more like 1-1 trade. The marksdwarves can shoot up/down at a 45 degree angle, and 20 tiles far tops. So 1 vertical is alright, they just won't be able to shoot straight down. This can be easily tested in arena.

Vision is wonky though, and you might get marksdwarves who don't shoot at all despite being in position to do so, because it's actually their arse that is facing the fortification.

Always carve fortifications into existing walls (constructed included) instead of constructing fortifications directly, and always build a secure "bunker" roof over them. Additionally, make sure your marksdwarves have no walking access to the enemy you want them to shoot at - no matter how remote that access might be, they will rush for it, if it exists, including climbing the walls/bridges and jumping over moats; thus, the easiest and most reliable way to prevent this are forbidden doors in the right spots. This together will prevent general problems with marksdwarf behavior.

There still remains a chance that, if shot at, your marksdwarves will dodge into and inside the fortification, which will give them the freedom to go mad and jump down into melee. The only way to fight it is adding [CANNOT_JUMP] and [CANNOT_CLIMB] to dwarven raws (but this can also make playing a dwarven adventurer unbearable).

Also, do not give them kill commands - only use the Defend Burrow scheduled alarm to ensure they stand in the correct spots; designate and redesignate the burrow as needed. There is no easy way to make them shoot exact targets nor even change targets at all instead of pincushioning the same gob all together, but you can use some wacky floodgate/door/drawbridge with a lever designs to break and re-open their line of sight, which will generally make them switch targets.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2020, 07:49:04 am by Sver »
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