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[LordBaal]

One would expect that either the volunteers are really volunteers and maybe some kind of large compensation in case of the worst? Or any future medical bills resulting or potentially resulting from the "study" to be covered for them from that point onwards.

Also either mind challenged, decieved or brave souls indeed. Or in dire need if money is being offered.

[Iduno]

I can't tell what exactly is being said there (without playing the video), given the variously opposing mix of replies not being so clearly supporting or challenging the OP at times (might be bickering amongst themselves).

I'm guessing he said children have nothing to worry about, though? Without qualifying, because it's complicated, so not. But context could he otherwise.

Pretty much that kids can't usually get sick from Corona, despite that being disproven many times, and the potential of lifelong organ damage. The usual anti-science "get back to work/school for the economy" talking points that are brought up when the rich don't like having to take care of employees/children.

[Starver]

Early on, we'd have been talking controlled then vs. uncontrolled for almost a year more of unknown future. Given the initial explosion in cases, there was serious "28 Days Later" considerations in possibly sweeping the entire country.

Now we know it's not quite liks that, in speed, but that's with three phases of lockdown (and at least two intense accelerators when unlocked-up again, plus variants that may not be helping) and now at a high enough general prevalence that it isn't burning out either. Like I said, we're now seeing a 'useful' level of community exposure for passive challenges to vaccines, but it's still a patchy test and you're sending out placeboed testers into that same environment.

As you say, we now have a far better idea of how to deal with badly adverse symptoms, so you then seem to agree that a more informative challenge trial is less risky than it was four, six or so months ago (or last April even, when more intense trials could have brung the November authorisations into being a month or two earlier). So you're supporting increased (even if not yet break-even) validity of running such trials.


(Oh yeah, when I talk of volunteers, I mean volunteers. And not in return for the commuting of Life Sentences or anything. I don't know about money (beyond normal Phase II/III practices and what happened with TGN1412) and we don't do things like pay hobos/prisoners for blood donations, etc, so desperation-volunteers are likely weeded out. As-long-as-required support is a given assumption, plus however bad our normal healthcare system is (or has become, under Covid) at least it's not like the US one so famously is .)

[Vector]

(Oh yeah, when I talk of volunteers, I mean volunteers. And not in return for the commuting of Life Sentences or anything. I don't know about money (beyond normal Phase II/III practices and what happened with TGN1412) and we don't do things like pay hobos/prisoners for blood donations, etc, so desperation-volunteers are likely weeded out. As-long-as-required support is a given assumption, plus however bad our normal healthcare system is (or has become, under Covid) at least it's not like the US one so famously is .)

I really appreciate this clarification, given that when we say "volunteers for medical trials" in the US we often mean prisoners.

[Starver]

Separated by a common language! I still wasn't even thinking anyone'd seriously mean that (or even passibly might have in anything more than jest) even when I inserted the bit about the commutation.

But I was entirely refering to the infamously unregulated blood drives for cash (or prison privileges?) compared to the "a choice of biscuits and a drink" UK blood donations system. With apologies if they're actually a thing of the past and tramps no longer leach themselves to death for ever more potent choice of alcohol.

[Jimmy]

https://twitter.com/fperrywilson/status/1360944814271979523

An absolutely brutal teardown of the study data for Vitamin D in COVID-19.

Gotta love them folks that actually do the effing math instead of just reading the title, skimming the abstract, and checking if it matches their own personal biases.

[Duuvian]

I think opening schools quickly is a risk. I think at least the teachers should get vaccinated before opening, and even then it's playing with fire. I think it's safer to close things like that when we've already seen at least slightly reduced vaccine effectiveness in some strains of the virus. I think it would be better in terms of virus containment to wait until vaccines have been quite widely distributed. I am no doctor though; if they say it's impossible that future virus variants can adapt to evade the current vaccines causing severe disease and mortality to go up I have no concerns about opening schools back up. I feel that things like opening schools may be great short term to get workers back to work if that is your primary concern, but it's decisions like that which have contributed to the expansion of the root cause of the problem.

I should note I am not a parent.

EDIT: Fixed an incorrect prefix that reversed meaning

[Starver]

I come back to the possibility of raising the vaccination priority of those that are high-contact, perhaps above those who are personally of mediumish-risk, on the grounds that the latter may be able to wait if the former aren't acting so easily as conduits.

(I know the jury is still out, regarding the vaccination preventing retransmission, but it ought at least to throttle its effects.)

[wierd]

The Problem (tm):

The modern world is **DEPENDENT** upon the education system for child care services.  FULL. STOP.


"Learn from home" removes this service, while trying (and failing, because of dependence on the child care services) to provide educational service, which is their real mandate.

However, education is NOT what the public at large really WANTS from the school system; In fact, if you look at voter histories you will see that they have not really wanted to educate kids for years now.  The public at large wants to just ignore that they have kids at all for 8 hours each day.

[Rolan7]

A lot of this isn't by choice, of course.  Couples are being heavily encouraged to both have jobs in order to stay solvent.  Ideally households will earn a living wage that lets one of them stay at home, but fingers crossed on that becoming standard again (not to mention single-parent households).

I guess an alternative would be institutional childcare - oh shit, right, that's the school system   You're absolutely right.

[Maximum Spin]

A lot of this isn't by choice, of course.  Couples are being heavily encouraged to both have jobs in order to stay solvent.  Ideally households will earn a living wage that lets one of them stay at home, but fingers crossed on that becoming standard again (not to mention single-parent households).

This can essentially only happen if labor force participation collapses (by at least half), increasing the value of human labor.

[Jimmy]

Modern childcare is also a symptom of modern living arrangements, where historically a couple's grandparents would share care of the children during work hours. With more people moving away from their birthplace in pursuit of employment and fewer people having multiple generations of a family sharing a single dwelling, the traditional social support network for childcare is removed, and a business model is born.

[martinuzz]

The Vatican is the first country in the world to institute mandatory vaccination. Anyone working in the Vatican who has not been vaccinated can now be lawfully fired, except if they have valid medical reasons not to be vaccinated.
The pope has said that everyone has a moral obligation to get vaccinated, because not doing so can harm others.
He also said that the church has no moral objections against the tissue of aborted fetusses having been used in the development of the vaccines.

[Vector]

go pope go

[Zangi]

Waiting for the anti-pope DLC to kick in.


Eh, more old people are also being condemned to life in old people homes these days too.