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[Starver]

I keep hearing "We should just go for Herd Immunity!" by current Unlock-Everythingers.

That's not a direction to head, that's a destination. Either by braving the avalanche-prone precarious hillside dirt track of Catching Covid, where random rocks might roll down and knock a number of unlucky travellers off into the precipice waiting below, or waiting for them to build the new Vaccine route with bridges and tunnels designed to get everyone safely past all those obstacles to the Promised Land.

[wierd]

From what I have been reading, humans do not retain long lived sensitization/immune recognition from the virus, even with straight up "Was freaking actively infected with live virus". People who caught it in the first wave, are catching it a second time.

This means "Herd Immunity" is bullshit.  The vaccine will work, but you will have to keep getting shot with it to have a strong reaction.  That is the only way to make "herd immunity" work-- The majority of the population must be getting regular shots of the vaccine, so that their bodies are actively hostile to the virus, and thus depriving it of host vectors.

The PROBLEM, is that the virus is able to sustain itself in animal reservoir populations.

SO-- Herd immunity is bullshit. 

Unless you want to shoot vaccine the rest of human existence.

[ChairmanPoo]

From what I have been reading, humans do not retain long lived sensitization/immune recognition from the virus, even with straight up "Was freaking actively infected with live virus". People who caught it in the first wave, are catching it a second time.
 

Well, tbh there are less than 10 cases documented worldwide AFAIK. I'd not jump into conclusions that fast.

That being said, we know that previos covid pandemics' immunity had a shelf life, and we know plenty of diseases which did not result in any form of herd immunity over history (though granted- not all outbreaks were equally bad). So I agree the "herd immunity apptoach" is bullshit

[JoshuaFH]

Probably an impossible question to answer: I was talking with my friend, and I made a speculation as to how long the covid pandemic will last. I feel pessimistic about it, so I said "Possibly 2-3 or maybe even 4 more years of covid ravaging society." but I was obviously shooting from the hip there. Is there any concrete idea of how long we're in for?

[wierd]

Given the "Short immunity period" and "Has animal reservoir population", COVID19 is "here to stay."  (this is similar to common cold, Flu virus, etc..)

However, a combination of seasonal vaccination, and immune system acclimation to the pathogen, may result in the virus being significantly less lethal to the general population.


Only time will tell.

[ChairmanPoo]

First vaccines are expected by november I think but noone expects wide swathes of the population to be vaccinated sooner than next summer.

Word is HCWs go first. I´m hoping we get something before christmas. 

[feelotraveller]

I feel pessimistic optimistic about it, so I said "Possibly 2-3 or maybe even 4 more years of covid ravaging society."

Fixed that for you.

[JoshuaFH]

https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-virus-outbreak-pandemics-public-health-new-york-e321f4c9098b4db4dd6b1eda76a5179e

Really, this is just what is expected and normal when the playbook is HyperNormalized politics.

The BBC did a documentary on this several years ago.  It's just as true today as then, and even more poignant now that there is a very prominent public health emergency.

The politicians of this century are brought up on the dogma that no matter what happens (NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS), they can spin it politically, and that this is "Identical to solving the problem", because the people won't question it. (or if they do, it wont matter.)


Seriously.  Watch this.  The whole 2 and a half hours.  Then reflect on the Trump administration, Bolsanaro and Co in south america, and the entire "We wont actually do what needs to be done to solve this problem, and want to ignore it out of existence" that the entire western world is engaging in.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fh2cDKyFdyU

Watch it.  Really.

I just got done watching this. AAA+ documentary, although I can't be certain of the voracity of everything stated, as it segues from one topic to the next quite often, and there's a lot of information to go through. I assume that you vouch for the accuracy of the piece though wierd.

I'd like to give a warning to anyone else thinking of watching this though, there's an awful lot of extremely graphic imagery. Lots of blood and mutilated dead bodies from real footage of bombings and violence. I had to pause the video halfway though cause I felt I was going to puke, I had to get up and go and do something else for a while to let my nerves settle.

[Maximum Spin]

I had to pause the video halfway though cause I felt I was going to puke, I had to get up and go and do something else for a while to let my nerves settle.

I've always found this kind of description fascinating. Can you describe what it feels like in more detail? It's something I've never experienced.

[JoshuaFH]

I had to pause the video halfway though cause I felt I was going to puke, I had to get up and go and do something else for a while to let my nerves settle.

I've always found this kind of description fascinating. Can you describe what it feels like in more detail? It's something I've never experienced.

I suppose it's possible to view atrocious things dispassionately, merely absorbing the information as facts and nothing more. To me though, it's obvious that I was viewing human suffering that was real and recent and ongoing. My sense of empathy for these people was so strongly aroused that I can't help but imagine what it must feel like to be in so much misery and live in such a terrible and violent world. Seeing such pain, I can't help but adopt it as my own pain and want to help them, and knowing I can't, feel sickened.

Added to that, these people were all ultimately caught up in a tragic and bloody game devised by powerful people decades in the past, and that all the blood and death onscreen was avoidable; none of it technically had to happen. Throughout the entire documentary, I was trying to think "If I were in a position of real power, what could I do to assist the plight of the Arab peoples, who are trapped in a Gordian's Knot of conflict and revenge?" and I just don't know, and I don't think anyone knows. That's the idea behind the whole documentary though, to keep the possibility for real and beneficial change behind an infinite amount of obfuscation and confusion, so no one and nothing can challenge the current power structures, and nothing can change the status quo.

[Maximum Spin]

I suppose it's possible to view atrocious things dispassionately, merely absorbing the information as facts and nothing more. To me though, it's obvious that I was viewing human suffering that was real and recent and ongoing. My sense of empathy for these people was so strongly aroused that I can't help but imagine what it must feel like to be in so much misery and live in such a terrible and violent world. Seeing such pain, I can't help but adopt it as my own pain and want to help them, and knowing I can't, feel sickened.

Interesting. For comparison, I watched the video while eating and nothing I saw bothered me; I don't process these things the same way. The whole idea of involuntary feelings is deeply interesting to me.

[JoshuaFH]

I would imagine most feelings are involuntary. You can use psychological tricks to suppress or exaggerate feelings, but ultimately those feelings had to exist beforehand involuntarily.

[wierd]

I have blunted affect from seeing real blood, real gore, and real violence.

I think the blunt imagery is apropos for the blunt message of the doc.

[Maximum Spin]

I would imagine most feelings are involuntary. You can use psychological tricks to suppress or exaggerate feelings, but ultimately those feelings had to exist beforehand involuntarily.

Nah, this is definitely not true for everyone. There's a bit of research on the subject, though not very much.

[JoshuaFH]

I think the blunt imagery is apropos for the blunt message of the doc.

I agree wierd, though it made me upset to see, the imagery alongside the information are two halves of one whole. The spoken monologue being the information, and the visual trauma being WHY you should care about the information. Normally I'd think that that is emotionally manipulative, but then I'd just be railing against the entirety of cinematography.