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[hector13]

I don’t like heavy machinery that much.

[Reelya]

FFS, a FOX pundit compared the masks and curfew in Melbourne to Solzhenitsyn’s Gulag Archipelago. Man, I've read that book, to compare those two things is hilarious.

Are we doing sleep deprivation and pulling fingernails out now to coerce confessions, or rounding people up for banned speech and sending them to hard-labor camps with a 97% death rate? It really does smack of a situation where you tell your teenager "you have to be home by 9pm, now" and they answer "what, are we in Nazi Germany, now?"

[McTraveller]

(Plus, while I'm here: it is a "moral responsibility" to get children back into schools? That absolutism implies that al those who are cautious about doing so are immoral. I have no problem looking toward trying to make return to school a plausible situation, but all the language has been "it will be done, and we will brook no arguments about it". Which is decisiveness too far.)

This is a tough one (and please no "no it's not, it's a simple choice!"  Because it really isn't...). I think we do have a moral obligation to educate our children, including socialization for the youngest.  We also have an obligation to help maintain public health.  These two obligations are inherently at odds when maintaining public health requires lack of socialization.  Note that this is often overlooked - the push for virtual/remote learning doesn't address the socialization aspects; education is more than just academic content.  And that's not even getting into increased domestic stress, parent work issues, etc.  Yeah you can pay people to be at home, but that's not a replacement for "normal" effective education.

So in general the trend is prioritization of social distance now, educate later; this may work out in the long run or it may not; it's a known fact that early childhood education years are critical, and if you miss that window it is extremely difficult to make up for it later.  Some things cannot just be put off until later (facetiously: "you think you delay planting those crops?").

When it comes to societal issues it is, sadly, a game of statistics.  You can have a smaller overall population that remains well socialized and educated. Or you have a larger population that is more insular and even more stressed regarding socialization than we are already having due to social media, etc.

[Starver]

So, it seems Russia has 'won the Virus Race', with their own vaccine being launched already. Having 'passed all necessary tests'.

(I bet I know one President who is probably not happy that he has been prevented from at least claiming a joint win/crossing the finish line.)

I am a little surprised that, as good as the oneupmanship might be, such a cavalier move was made. And I wonder how much stolen IP got compressed into their product (e.g. using proof/disproof from those various researchers shown to be hacked in other countries, to concentrate their own efforts).

Let's hope it doesn't turn out to be a backwards step.

[TamerVirus]

Putin said he tested his daughter with it.
"Lasting immunity"
We'll see...

[McTraveller]

Awesome if it works, but I'm nervous about it.

Also, I don't understand the adversarial nature of this whole thing, why "my country is better than yours."  Insert rhetorical "why can't we all just be a single human race?" comment here.

[Starver]

That's what gets me. What's better PR than succeeding in your national Moonshot? Setting up internationally available Lunar Tourism...

[ChairmanPoo]

They're only going to use it on healthcare workers and other high risk professions for now. Not for the general population until January

Soo pretty much a propaganda stunt. Because let me tell you something: the same is going to happen in most western nations, with whichever vaccine is favored in your area. Probably Moderna

[nenjin]

I'm not going anywhere near a vaccine for Corona, not for at least another year. I have zero confidence in vaccine development under this kind of financial and political duress. Everyone wants to be "first to market" with theirs, and I would not be at all surprised if the rush to create one comes with a whole host of side effects. Thanks but no thanks, I'll wait for millions of guinea pigs to serve as actual clinical trials before I take anything.

[TamerVirus]

I would not be at all surprised if the rush to create one comes with a whole host of side effects. Thanks but no thanks, I'll wait for millions of guinea pigs to serve as actual clinical trials before I take anything.

Interesting to note that in the Swine Flu outbreak in '09 a hastily prepared vaccine went to market called Pandemrix.
Ended up causing narcolepsy in a bunch of people

[Dostoevsky]

An interesting aside in the Washington Post article on the Russia news is that "China has already authorized one vaccine for use in its military, ahead of definitive data that it is safe and effective."

As to the adversarial nature of it, I think there are a few factors:

1) Vaccine production will take a while to ramp up, and whoever is 'first' will likely choose to help their own population first
2) Vaccine production is probably going to be worth a lot of money; to the extent the developer/producer is associated with a country, that country gets profit from it. (This varies from a U.S. 'get tax revenue' to a more RU/CH 'it's basically a gov't company')
3) The usual national pride thing, like the original space race
4) Going back to #1, whoever helps their population first will recover economically first, and thus could have an advantage in the post-pandemic world order (perhaps)

I'm probably missing some others.

I would not be at all surprised if the rush to create one comes with a whole host of side effects. Thanks but no thanks, I'll wait for millions of guinea pigs to serve as actual clinical trials before I take anything.

Interesting to note that in the Swine Flu outbreak in '09 a hastily prepared vaccine went to market called Pandemrix.
Ended up causing narcolepsy in a bunch of people

And yeah, skipping the side effect portion is running pretty massive risks.

[ChairmanPoo]

I would not be at all surprised if the rush to create one comes with a whole host of side effects. Thanks but no thanks, I'll wait for millions of guinea pigs to serve as actual clinical trials before I take anything.

Interesting to note that in the Swine Flu outbreak in '09 a hastily prepared vaccine went to market called Pandemrix.
Ended up causing narcolepsy in a bunch of people

A very rare side effect, though. I think there are what, a hundred cases of that happening worldwide?

Mind you, I'd be happier waiting until they do the Phase IIIs.

And yet... if I am given the choice in fall (and if I start my new job I suspect there's a strong possibility they will), I'll probably go for it nonetheless :/




As an aside: I suspect that will be the case because rumors of an "early access" for healthcare workers began as early as april, they were already talking of authing some of the late stage vaccines for high risk professions.... and in the last two weeks medical press has been hammering over and over how moderna's vaccine induced antibodies have activity against covid (in vitro, of course).

So my suspicion is that this agenda is churning on, and that last media offensive was in order to drum up support.
I font think it's nefarious mind you. The rate of infections among HCW is really bad, and I think goverments are worried about shortages

[scriver]

I would not be at all surprised if the rush to create one comes with a whole host of side effects. Thanks but no thanks, I'll wait for millions of guinea pigs to serve as actual clinical trials before I take anything.

Interesting to note that in the Swine Flu outbreak in '09 a hastily prepared vaccine went to market called Pandemrix.
Ended up causing narcolepsy in a bunch of people

A very rare side effect, though. I think there are what, a hundred cases of that happening worldwide?

Mind you, I'd be happier waiting until they do the Phase IIIs.

And yet... if I am given the choice in fall (and if I start my new job I suspect there's a strong possibility they will), I'll probably go for it nonetheless :/

I believe it is tied to a Nordic gene. Most of the cases are in Sweden and Finland.

[Rolan7]

I'm not going anywhere near a vaccine for Corona, not for at least another year. I have zero confidence in vaccine development under this kind of financial and political duress. Everyone wants to be "first to market" with theirs, and I would not be at all surprised if the rush to create one comes with a whole host of side effects. Thanks but no thanks, I'll wait for millions of guinea pigs to serve as actual clinical trials before I take anything.

My mom said they're paying like $700 for volunteer guinea pigs here in the states.  Which somehow surprised me.  Somehow, I thought that paying civilians to risk their lives wouldn't be a thing under capitalism.  I thought it would be a truly volunteer thing.  But no, why rely on civic duty when you can literally force the poor to take the risk?

[Reelya]

I wouldn't be surprised if along with that $700 they have a bunch of restrictions, such as you can't wear a face mask or wash your hands, because that would taint the data they collected about you.