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[wierd]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/13/coronavirus-latest-news/

Apparently, the US is wondering if a May-1 relaxation of social distancing and shelter in place might be a bad idea, after China releases new numbers from their own attempt at restarting economic activities...


AMAZING-- it's almost like--- jumping the gun for those investors would result in people getting killed or something! Like, there is this thing called OBJECTIVE REALITY that wont just go away or something! How troublesome!! /s

[ChairmanPoo]

https://youtu.be/wWl8KqjWtqI

[wierd]

Yup yup---

It's what happens when the powers that be keep insisting on shooting messengers, and denying reality.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/04/13/trump-fire-fauci-coronavirus/

I mean-- THE NERVE of that man-- asserting that lives could have been saved if Trump had not been a dick! Trump did everything right you know! Oh-- Wait--

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/12/fauci-trump-rebuffed-social-distancing-advice-coronavirus


DAMN THAT OBJECTIVE REALITY!

[Starver]

(I have no problem with the WaPo site giving me a choice of limited readings per month or subscription, nor it then also detecting my apparent (default?) browser option to block adds, yet which doesn't block ads used on fanwiki sites, etc, so can't actually be that hard to get around, but when the banner telling me I'm blocking ads is sized such that I can't even see the text that doubtless tells me their suggestion of what to do now, like tick some disclaimer or maybe go back to the subscription popover to wash my online guilt away with a donation, then I'm probably not reading any more WaPo this month due to just tediousness of havibg to read as much as possible before the problem kicks in.)

Got the gist, though. Before I even got to it. Being the masochist I am and lurking on @realDonaldTrump, etc, even though I don't haveva Twitter log in. (Which is probably a good thing. I might be tempted to put a few choice words out there, and then it would become a few slightly less chosen ones, then I'd be part of the problem.)

[Reelya]

From what I've just read, Fauci didn't even point the finger at Trump.

https://abcnews.go.com/US/coronavirus-live-updates-trump-retweets-call-fire-fauci/story?id=70114771

President Trump retweeted a tweet demanding that Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases since 1984, be fired from his post.

The tweet was in response to DeAnna Lorraine who is currently running for Congress in California.

Said Lorraine: "Fauci is now saying that had Trump listened to the medical experts earlier he could've saved more lives. Fauci was telling people on February 29th that there was nothing to worry about and it posed no threat to the US public at large.Time to #FireFauci."

Only hours earlier Fauci had appeared on CNN saying that he thinks more lives could have been saved if mitigation efforts to stop the spread of the novel coronavirus had started earlier.

"I mean, obviously, you could logically say that if you had a process that was ongoing and you started mitigation earlier, you could have saved lives, Fauci told CNN's Jake Tapper on "State of the Union." "Obviously, no one is going to deny that. But what goes into those decisions is complicated ... But you're right, I mean, obviously, if we had right from the very beginning shut everything down, it may have been a little bit different. But there was a lot of pushback about shutting things down back then."

So it rests on this claim that on Feb 29th Fauci supposedly said "there was nothing to worry about and it posed no threat to the US public at large", and that he apparently flip-flopped, so he should be fired. This is really trying to pin the blame for Trump's botched response on Fauci by rewriting history.

The "Fauci said there was nothing to worry about" stuff seems to stem from this one specific interview:
https://www.today.com/video/dr-fauci-on-coronavirus-fears-no-need-to-change-lifestyle-yet-79684677616

However, on Feb 28th he was reported to have said the virus might be impossible to contain, so the whole thing rests on some extremely selective memory.
https://www.businessinsider.com.au/coronavirus-anthony-fauci-trump-admin-stops-discussion-2020-2

[Cthulhu]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2020/04/13/coronavirus-latest-news/

Apparently, the US is wondering if a May-1 relaxation of social distancing and shelter in place might be a bad idea, after China releases new numbers from their own attempt at restarting economic activities...


AMAZING-- it's almost like--- jumping the gun for those investors would result in people getting killed or something! Like, there is this thing called OBJECTIVE REALITY that wont just go away or something! How troublesome!! /s

This entire thing has been a massive rebuttal of the post-truth mentality, on both sides of the political fence.  Remember this?

The aide said that guys like me were 'in what we call the reality-based community,' which he defined as people who 'believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality.' [...] 'That's not the way the world really works anymore,' he continued. 'We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors...and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do'.

Everyone on every side rushing to get their clickbait ad money and maneuver the idea of the virus to their gain, Trump and everybody else arguing about whether or not to call it "Chinese Coronavirus," armchair behavioral psychology about the value of masks and social distancing, what this says about my team and what it says about the other team, and none of it changes a single thing because the virus doesn't even know we exist.

[Zangi]

The whole trump presidency has been a train wreck of selective memory/opinion being pushed forward and not so much as backtracked, but outright conveniently ignored and brought back forth as they suit the narrative of his administration.

Really, you can even say that has been the primary tactic of the Republicans these past few decades.  Just never before has this been layed bare at this massive level of scrutiny before now.

[Iduno]

The whole trump presidency has been a train wreck of selective memory/opinion being pushed forward and not so much as backtracked, but outright conveniently ignored and brought back forth as they suit the narrative of his administration.

Really, you can even say that has been the primary tactic of the Republicans these past few decades.  Just never before has this been layed bare at this massive level of scrutiny before now.

Ameripol, but it doesn't help the the Democrats have decided that the best way to oppose them is to become exactly like them.

[Jopax]

So how real is the threat of massive healthcare worker shortages in the next several years causing further issues if something like this were to reoccur? Because they're the ones most at risk here, regardless of their age group or previous illnesses, doubly so with the widespread lack of protective gear or any sort of reserve that would allow them some sort of rotation so you don't get burnout and exhaustion further lowering their chances.

Even worse, I don't think I've seen this discussed anywhere at all, despite it being the worst possible consequence of this whole thing since it'd leave a whole lot of people at even greater risk just from regular injuries or treatable diseases since you'd have greatly reduced doctor numbers for a few years at least until the education system catches up somewhat.

[Loud Whispers]

Ameripol, but it doesn't help the the Democrats have decided that the best way to oppose them is to become exactly like them.

If you're a political donor, you don't want an opposition, you want two controlled parties so you win no matter who wins

[misko27]

Ah but what if the donors die of coronavirus, like Trump's friend Stanley Chera?

[McTraveller]

So how real is the threat of massive healthcare worker shortages in the next several years causing further issues if something like this were to reoccur? Because they're the ones most at risk here, regardless of their age group or previous illnesses, doubly so with the widespread lack of protective gear or any sort of reserve that would allow them some sort of rotation so you don't get burnout and exhaustion further lowering their chances.

Even worse, I don't think I've seen this discussed anywhere at all, despite it being the worst possible consequence of this whole thing since it'd leave a whole lot of people at even greater risk just from regular injuries or treatable diseases since you'd have greatly reduced doctor numbers for a few years at least until the education system catches up somewhat.

Not sure what you are asking here to be honest.

Is this a question about how, as a society, we could prioritize and provide incentives for medical staff?

One of my hopes for this situation is that it somehow manages to shift culture from "immediate profit" to "let's do things a little bit less efficiently in the short run, so we are more stable across all situations."  This is very visible in the US, but it's not limited to that geopolitical boundary - almost all countries did not have enough "spare" medical or other capacity for this type of event.

We need to shift from "savings is bad, we need to get people to spend" to "no, really, savings is good."  Low interest rates for a decade means personal savings is even less than it usually is, making the financial impacts worse for individuals. 

No concept of savings or stockpiles of medical supplies - and in fact structural penalties for having such stockpiles - has made the medical impact worse.

Barriers to entry to becoming medical professionals - means we have no "savings" in staff capacity.  Regulatory limits on the required bed utilization - no "savings".  (This is one side effect of rules like "must spend 80% of insurance premiums on care" - it meas there is a penalty to build spare capacity!)

Basically the key to all this is "live not just within your means, but below them."  And not just as an individual, but as a society.

[scriver]

God I have such a headache

Heavy is the head that wears the corona

[Jopax]

What I was trying to ask is how real and severe of an issue that is going to become? Is there any data on this, is anyone tracking this, maybe preparing in some way, trying to mitigate it? Because I haven't seen it talked about much it's hard to gauge just how big of a deal this could be. It could be a slight reduction or it could be a total collapse in certain areas and I'd like to know if anyone is actually paying attention to this stuff.

[Cthulhu]

One of my hopes for this situation is that it somehow manages to shift culture from "immediate profit" to "let's do things a little bit less efficiently in the short run, so we are more stable across all situations."  This is very visible in the US, but it's not limited to that geopolitical boundary - almost all countries did not have enough "spare" medical or other capacity for this type of event.

We need to shift from "savings is bad, we need to get people to spend" to "no, really, savings is good."  Low interest rates for a decade means personal savings is even less than it usually is, making the financial impacts worse for individuals. 

That would be nice, but I think we all know when this is over everyone's going to breathe a sigh of relief and say "Thank god that's over, we survived the pandemic and there will never be another one ever again."

As I've said before in this thread, all advanced societies optimize for efficiency, progressively thinning their safety margins to increase value extracted until a disaster cascade blows the entire thing to hell, and this is the Great Filter.