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Author Topic: Untamed Virus Containment Thread:COVID-19: Lurking Omni-Flu Edition  (Read 495548 times)

Maximum Spin

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Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread:COVID-19: Lurking Omni-Flu Edition
« Reply #6855 on: March 10, 2023, 05:14:33 pm »

I guess I was just worried that, say, my dad would get better for a day or two but then catch a mutated strain from me, getting sick again. Then we'd all be trapped in a cycle of sickness as we gave each other new germs.

It didn't make a ton of sense in my mind but I know that Covid mutates quickly and it's perfectly possible to catch it again months later.
It sounds like you have some misconceptions about how reinfection works in the first place.
Coronaviruses "mutate quickly" in general, relatively speaking, but it's falling antibody titres (and to an extent changes in the antibody types being produced) that drive reinfection, not mutation - most mutations don't even change the resulting protein product at all, and those that do usually don't affect antibody binding (this is necessary - the viral proteins still have to have roughly the same forms in order to function, so mutations that can both inhibit binding and still produce a working protein are rare). Even when they do, the effect is most likely partial, and with the broad spectrum of differnetly-targeted antibodies produced in an actual infection, inhibiting antibody binding in one place still doesn't change the binding anywhere else. You can also tell this from the fact that the Omicron type is substantially different from the original strain, but still hasn't fully neutralized antibodies that were made to target it, although they seem to be much less effective. Most of the currently circulating variants are just not different enough from earlier Omicron-type variants for there to be much difference in antibody binding. (Of course, the considerable differences we see between Omicron and the original are enough, but that's not something that happens easily or often.)
Another line of argument that could help: viruses go through an enormous number of generations just inside one single person. The viruses inside you at the end of an infection have experienced a huge amount of evolution toward "infecting this guy in particular" compared to the ones that went in. If it were that easy to mutate away from your antibodies while the immune system is active and producing them at high levels, you'd never be able to clear an infection at all. (Well, the innate immune system would still help, but it'd have a hard time of it.)

Now, there is a caveat, which is that, if the body is still specifically producing antibodies targeted toward the original strain even while being infected by an Omicron-type strain, which can happen, then those antibodies just don't work very well and you can still be infected; but that has nothing to do with ongoing mutation so the speed of mutation doesn't apply. You could be hit by the same exact Omicron strain again and again and fall for it every time. That shouldn't apply to you, though, since you've never had it before, unless you already had antibodies to earlier strains.
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Sirus

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Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread:COVID-19: Lurking Omni-Flu Edition
« Reply #6856 on: March 18, 2023, 01:51:02 pm »

Update: whole family has tested negative! Still some lingering symptoms but we're all a lot better than we were a week ago. I think that paxlovid treatment might be to thank, but it's hard to tell for sure; perhaps the vaccinations did most of the work, or perhaps we caught a mild strain, or who knows.

No matter the case, I'm glad we weren't all miserable for two weeks or more.
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Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread:COVID-19: Lurking Omni-Flu Edition
« Reply #6857 on: March 20, 2023, 06:59:27 am »

I think I suffered san loss speaking to a nurse who kept saying things like "I think the thermometer is broken everyone's temperature is 36.3*C" or "I don't think the vaccine works because everyone who gets really sick had the vaccine"

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Ziusudra

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Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread:COVID-19: Lurking Omni-Flu Edition
« Reply #6858 on: April 28, 2023, 09:33:58 pm »

H5N1 found in North Atlantic seals, though:
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Data do not support seal-to-seal transmission as a primary route of infection.
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Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread:COVID-19: Lurking Omni-Flu Edition
« Reply #6859 on: April 29, 2023, 01:12:20 am »

H5N1 is the one that gets called pig flu isn't it?

Also if it can infect seals does it even need to be called pig flu anymore, might be time to rename it?
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Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread:COVID-19: Lurking Omni-Flu Edition
« Reply #6860 on: April 29, 2023, 02:48:11 am »

No, it's the one called bird flu, swine is a strain of H1N1. The famous 1918-1920 flu was an H1N1 strain.

Most viruses can infect other other animal kingdoms, but are less virulent when they do, unless they adapt, which is the worry with this.

But it's just like that 1918 strain, many still call it "the Spanish flu" even though it didn't really hav any thing to do with Spain. But it's easier for human brains to remember things like that than alphanumeric strings like HPAI A(H5N1) or A/H1N1/1918.
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Lord Shonus

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Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread:COVID-19: Lurking Omni-Flu Edition
« Reply #6861 on: April 29, 2023, 03:41:52 am »

But it's just like that 1918 strain, many still call it "the Spanish flu" even though it didn't really hav any thing to do with Spain. But it's easier for human brains to remember things like that than alphanumeric strings like HPAI A(H5N1) or A/H1N1/1918.

Well, it did have something to do with Spain, as that's where the outbreak was first reported. Primarily because Spain was one of the very few countries in Europe where "stabbing some other guy in a trench" was not the latest fad, and thus they were not subject to wartime censorship. Most of Europe was also getting hit (that's probably how it made it to the US - military traffic back and forth), but major disease outbreaks are the kind of thing you really don't want your enemies to know about.
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Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread:COVID-19: Lurking Omni-Flu Edition
« Reply #6862 on: April 29, 2023, 05:22:59 am »

Except it appears to hav first been observed in Kansas as early as January and the French press initially called it the American flu, and only switched after it hit Madrid hard.

Anyway, when I said "it didn't really hav any thing to do with Spain" I meant epidemiologically.
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Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread:COVID-19: Lurking Omni-Flu Edition
« Reply #6863 on: July 08, 2023, 01:01:27 pm »

More mammals dying from H5N1 'bird' flu.

While 20 cats have been confirmed to have been killed by the H5N1 subtype of Highly Pathogenic Avian Influenza (HPAI) in Poland in recent weeks, the source of the outbreak among the felines remains elusive.
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Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread:COVID-19: Lurking Omni-Flu Edition
« Reply #6864 on: April 28, 2024, 02:20:12 pm »

This May Be Our Last Chance to Halt Bird Flu in Humans and We Are Blowing It

Quote
So far there is only one confirmed human case.

...

Sid Miller, the Texas commissioner for agriculture ... said he strongly suspected that the outbreak dated back to at least February.

...

So far, the agency told me, it is aware of only 23 people who have been tested.
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Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread:COVID-19: Lurking Omni-Flu Edition
« Reply #6865 on: April 30, 2024, 01:13:38 am »

So are they thinking Bird flu will be the next plague?
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Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread:COVID-19: Lurking Omni-Flu Edition
« Reply #6866 on: April 30, 2024, 08:34:29 am »

Maybe it'll just end up like monkeypox, lots of hype at the beginning, but then it reveals itself to be the non-issue it was and simply burns itself out. You can't trust the media's take on it cause they have an incentive to hype everything up to be the next catastrophe.
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Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread:COVID-19: Lurking Omni-Flu Edition
« Reply #6867 on: April 30, 2024, 02:11:57 pm »

That attitude backfires when it turns out to not be a non-issue, though.

And something will always turn up that is thought a non-issue (even by the media[1]...) but actually be very much an issue. (As recent history shows, and I'm not just talking about the events this particular thread are about.)

You can say "You can't trust the media's hype" all you want, but it's also clear that you can't trust all kinds of other hype (or indeed counter-hype). Who are you trusting more: some rando 'twiX' account, or profesional journalists whose careers aren't so easy to restart from scratch if they are perceived to do a bad job?


...also, "the media" really isn't hyping this up at all. Maybe this means they don't see good reason to do so, yet. Maybe they're not yet seeing enough good evidence to put their heads above the parapets.



[1] If you can label them all as an amorphous mass, given that they're often competing and contrarily-leaning units, hardly likely to spontaneously push a single viewpoint anyway.
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Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread:COVID-19: Lurking Omni-Flu Edition
« Reply #6868 on: April 30, 2024, 02:25:42 pm »

Pretty sure bird flu has been a problem in the UK for a long while now. One of my wife’s former classmates was involved in dealing with it, and I was horrified last year to discover the penguin parade at Edinburgh Zoo was suspended indefinitely because of bird flu.
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Re: Untamed Virus Containment Thread:COVID-19: Lurking Omni-Flu Edition
« Reply #6869 on: April 30, 2024, 03:18:35 pm »

Pretty sure bird flu has been a problem in the UK for a long while now. One of my wife’s former classmates was involved in dealing with it, and I was horrified last year to discover the penguin parade at Edinburgh Zoo was suspended indefinitely because of bird flu.

Not saying it isn't, if that was about my post. Just that 'news wise' it's off the boil. The crashes of breeding colonies of birds, in the news at the time, isn't really being commented upon since the lowering levels of precaution last year. This might be due to experts being happier about the situation, or despite experts not yet being happy about it. (This is one of those cases where there'll be complaints about experts doing "too much" and "not enough", xepending upon who you ask. And, for some of them, possibly both at the same time.)


But, really, I was reacting against "the media is hyping this for nefarious purposes!", which is how I read the preceding post. If they are, they're being awfully subtle about it. And if you disbelieve everything "the media" says then you're probably on the wrong track, too (whatever track that leads you on). At least be discerning and think about it all. I mean, if I heard that (e.g.) GBNews had announced something then I might be doubtful, but it's possible they're not wrong. If it seemed important enough, for my situation, I'd at least see what other perspectives said about it. ;)
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