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[hector13]

I mean, you’re saying countries that have regular elections to change out the supposed fascists are also forcing vaccines and lockdown measures on people that are regularly protesting against both. Of course if we agree with these “propaganda” measures - in spite of the regular coverage of people who actively protest against them - we’re just sheeple who don’t think enough.

Then you suggest that the governments involved in these measures assassinate members of foreign governments who don’t toe the line, which is why, of course, the entire Republican Party in America has been eliminated, and the 99 rebel members of the Conservative party in the UK that voted against bringing back these measures have been disappeared - never mind that the measures had been stopped for months in the first place which flies in the face of what you’re saying.

Then some shite about consent, which doesn’t even make sense philosophically. “You never gave consent to the truth” doesn’t work on absolute truth, which doesn’t care if you consent because it just is, or relative truth, which doesn’t matter if you consent because your truth is not the same as someone else’s truth.

All (except the consent part) requires a conspiracy which involves literally thousands of people from different nations each with their own mutually exclusive drives and motives to have cooperated without even one person dissenting for an entire two years.

I also realize this is an entirely pointless exercise, but you act as though I’m arguing in bad faith about this, but I suppose I want to see what you say next.

It’s like watching a car crash in slow motion, and I hate myself for indulging in it. I’m better than this, but fuck it the Christmas season is horrible and misery loves company.

[King Zultan]

It's the Eat your mushrooms guy, he always comes in with weird shit.

[martinuzz]

I think he should probably eat antipsychotics instead of mushrooms.

EDIT: This is how I think about the antivaxxers and conspiracy theorists in general.
Partially because I really think that they suffer from 'persistent delusions', which is a class A red flag for psychosis / schizophrenia and related disorders, but moreso, for my own peace of mind.
If I were to consider them actually sane, I would be outraged and angry with the lot.
As long as I can consider them as psychiatric patients, I can still feel pity and compassion. I don't want to be angry all the time.

[scriver]

Hey, buddy, you're going down a controversial path here.
I don't think it'll be fruitful endeavor

Says the guy with the virus name!

[wierd]

It is much worse than that.

They are the end product of post-truth, and persistent political spin.

The Left has thier own versions, but are usually harmless, where the post truthers in the right tend to cause active harm.

Compare and contrast: "orgone pyramids and crystal healing in the age of aquarius" with "Baby eating reptilian overlords hungering for adenochrome!"

The rightwing version tends to proceed from a carefully cultivated narrative that "they are out to get you!", which is a propaganda tactic as old as mankind. This tends to manifest negative delusions, which result in further ideation, paranoia, and hypersensitivity to things outside the familiar or ordinary. Political groups averse to diversity, change, or curiosity favor instilling this state in thier supporters, and so such fraudulent messages are frequently broadcast.

The leftwing version tends to focus on an impossible, mystical level of inclusion, integration, or benevolence, with a strong belief that this is both real and attainable. The proponents of this view in politics tend to take the route of "religion is the opiate of the masses", and that "fat, happy people are easy to persuade, and control."

It is important to realize that this is a race to the bottom, in terms of compounding consequences. Both sides are not true monsters, bent on mindwashing. Rather, they perceive the ither as engaging in it, and then increase the degree of the propaganda messaging accordingly to try and reach a balance.  This just motivates both sides to greater acts of divisive politick, and propaganda. 

In short, it produces and sustains post-truth.

Critical evaluation, with a shared and empirically derived concept of a real physical world, is excluded by both propaganda approaches, as such would be resistant to the propaganda.

You do not need shadowy figures to have propaganda; just election campaign thinktanks.

In the case of rightwing propaganda, you have Heritage Group, Breitbart, Fox, and pals.

In the case of the Left Wing (which has moved away from the magic crystal hippy stuff and more and more toward neoliberalism as a pure belief) you have things like the clinton foundation, the DNC super PAC machinery, and more liberal press.

In both cases, the ribald denial of reality (No limits to growth! No reason to restrict trade or movement of people! World Govt is attainable, despite cultural and religious differences! / "THEY ARE OUT TO GET YOU, CONTROL YOUR THOUGHTS AND MAKE YOU A PART OF THE HIVE MIND!!! DOOOOOOOOOM!!") leads to systemically incorrect worldviews that are carefully selected for, and purposefully sustained.

Normal people end up in one of the end result populations, based on the media they consume.

They are not mentally ill. They are victims of post-truth.

[Frumple]

Blech. Reaction this time feels worse; fever symptoms (some of the worst shivers I've had in my life, kept me from sleeping more than like a hour last night), ache, extremities weirdly sensitive. It's not major, but it deffo sucks. Seems to already be clearing up a bit, but still. Pretty rough this time. Not nearly as rough as the actual plague, tho'.

[Sirus]

You too, huh? Night after getting the booster, I woke up shivering so badly that I got out of bed in order to grab the heaviest blanket I could find, throw it on top of my other bedding, and crawl back under. Headaches and general fatigue the next day, which faded gradually until I felt basically normal the day after.

That shivering was something else, though. Full on teeth chattering and full body shakes. Thought maybe a cold front had gone through or something.

[Frumple]

Yup. It's not the worst shivering/shaking I've experienced -- there was a period medication was making me so unstable on that front it was intermittently dumping me on the floor, and I've at least avoided that -- but it was probably top three or something.

Actually felt genuinely, sustainably cold for the first time in... probably over a decade, I'unno. House wasn't even remotely cold enough to make me shiver like that under normal circumstances, heh. It's backed off a bit on that front, but I am wildly exhausted. Hit the point hours ago you're tired enough it's hard to sleep, blech.

[Starver]

It would be interesting to recap the types of vaccination and personal results (not for any medically rigorous meta-study reasons, but 'just for fun').

For my part:

• Oxford/AZ first dose (of the viral vector type) - Very notable effects, from a few hours later and lasting about a day; Bodily aches and general roughness, clearly starting at the injection site (otherwise no trouble with the competently made injection).
• Oxford/AZ second dose (v.v.) - Lesser but similar feelings, short delay of onset and quicker to pass.
• Moderna booster (mRNA) - Not sure. Possibly purely psychosomatic tingling in the roof of the mouth, and itchy shoulders (both!) if that wasn't something like too much washing powder used for my freshly donned clothing. Anything else, as a reaction was lost in the general daily fluctuations of awareness. Though the injection itself (given with the roughness and lack of subtlety of an inverse-vampire!) hurt much more and left my upper-arm sore for more than a week!

(PS. No actual shivering, in any case. But I got out of the habit of shivering as a child. I think if I started shivering again I'd be actually quite worried, and I manage quite well in single-figure (°C, that is!) temperatures under normal circumstances.)

[wierd]

Moderna:

Shot 1: no real reaction. Mild injection site pain.
Shot 2: 24hrs of chills and flu like symptoms.
Shot 3: we'll find out tonight. Freshly jabbed.

[None]

JnJ gave me a splitting headache, chills, and a sensitivity to smells (the aroma of miso soup I'd had that evening rankled in my nose for hours). Onset came about 10 hours after jab. Cleared up in 24-36 hours.

Moderna booster gave me that achy arm, hefty fatigue, maybe general body ache? It sucked. I forget exactly, but after the first bout, I made sure to schedule at the very start of a weekend. Onset came about 6 hours after the jab. Cleared up in 24-36 hours.

I think I got ahead of the booster by nursing a bottle of ibuprofen- I wasn't sure what to expect with JnJ, so my self-care response was somewhat lacking.

They're rough shots, for sure. Maybe I'll try to get Pfizer if/when the third bout is necessary, keep things lively, spite my siblings, etc.

[martinuzz]

I think I got ahead of the booster by nursing a bottle of ibuprofen- I wasn't sure what to expect with JnJ, so my self-care response was somewhat lacking.

Personally, I would not take medication that suppresses inflammation response of your immune system, even if it is only very slightly, when I get a vaccin that needs to work together with the immune system.

Having your immune system not work at it's full capacity could mean that you also won't get the full benefit of the vaccin.

[Starver]

If I'd (known I'd) had some ibuprofenny-type medication, at the time of Shot 1's effects going most deep I would have taken it. (But by then 'things were happening', so might have not reduced the benefit.)

As it was, I just don't take much of anything anyway (though I occasionally buy something and then forget that I've got lemsips or capsules right in the back of some cupboard, until I realise they're years beyond their Use By in some general long-delayed reshuffling exercise) and I actually dread the time I may find I have to have a regular regime of pill-popping.

I had the packet I'd forgotten about during shot 1 (and found shortly afterwwrds) ready at hand for shot 2, but didn't get anywhere near as 'necessary'. I was just too busy around the time of the booster to similarly dig them out, but nothing (not even the impact/needling damage of the rough injection) took me to the point where I even had a moment's thought that I'd desire it. It's only just now that you're getting me to deconstruct my particular scenario that I'm even remembering that I had the option.

[None]

I think I got ahead of the booster by nursing a bottle of ibuprofen- I wasn't sure what to expect with JnJ, so my self-care response was somewhat lacking.

Personally, I would not take medication that suppresses inflammation response of your immune system, even if it is only very slightly, when I get a vaccin that needs to work together with the immune system.

Having your immune system not work at it's full capacity could mean that you also won't get the full benefit of the vaccin.

Is that how that works?I reckon the immune system would just continue doing 'the stuff' until the vaccinebits are spent. Sure didn't need the inflammation in my noggin...

[hector13]

I had my first dose of the Pfizer vaccine around 8 months after recovering from Covid.

First dose: sore injection site that got steadily worse over the Friday I had the shot to the point I couldn’t sleep on that side on Friday or Saturday evening. Saturday had mild cold symptoms, general mild achiness.

Second dose: sore injection that got a little bad but didn’t bother me too much.

I’m not sure if my arm soreness had anything to do with how the injection was given, as the first dose was noticeably painful going on, while the second was not.

Probably won’t get a booster, but the second dose was received in August so I probably also don’t need one for the time being.