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[TankKit]

Alexander stands once more. "I would ask the honourable Senator Tra the same question. No one state ever took complete control over Earth - such is taught in childrens history books. I would also ask this honourable Senator why he would believe that China, an authoritarian regime hiding under the guise of Communism to enact tyranny on it's citizens, is an example of a good, centralised state. Not only that - where as I gave plenty of reasoning behind my accusation of you as a liar, you have given none whatsoever, simply waving away the arguments against you nonchalantly. Do you truly believe that the average citizen would be happier living in a bloated system of government where every little thing would have to go multiple levels up the government just to be dealt with? And again, this has never been about an America except when you wish to deflect arguments away from you.

Adjran Tra, you are the only man here who would benefit from this arrangement, and countless innocents would suffer if your plans came to fruition. You claim that there would never be a crisis, small or large, if the state was centralised, but that is a blatant LIE. The system of government can not control famines and other such natural disasters, it can only hope to limit their effect and even negate them. If you had your way, there would be no immediate reaction to such things - instead, the people suffering from them would be forced to wait until we found the time to solve their issues. There are less than 10 of us here! Adjran Tra, if you have nothing to contribute but lies and a personal desire for power, I question whether or not you should be allowed to remain a member of this Assembly."

With that said, Alexander returns to his seat.

[Ghazkull]

Zhang opened one eye upon the mention of home, then sat up. "Bah and once again with your American propaganda! Look to your own country before you call others an authoritarian regime on twenty first century legends and US superstition. Last i checked standards of living and personal perception of freedom in China was higher than that rump state you call the US.
That aside since the honorable Senator does not want to talk about America, despite the lot of you bringing up Earths history on a constant basis, lets talk about you wanting to immediately censor your fellow senators before this government is even properly established. That smacks even more of personal ambition than anything Senator Tra here offered.

In any case how about a Confederacy? Concordian Confederacy has a nice ring to it..."

He didn't offer up any more arguments as to why a confederacy was in any way preferable to the other systems, seemingly satisified that it sounded great. Happy with himself he sat back down and put light to a cigar. A connoisseur would recognize it as a rare earth brand...incidentally from China.

[TankKit]

Alexander glares at Zhang and raises an eyebrow at his cigar, but makes no comment.

[Kakaluncha]

Angelia looks at Hendrick, acknowledging his question

"Senator Hendrick, raises a valid notion, how do we decide the Representatives? Well, regarding our current body, I believe that the Senate, or one of its subsequent bodies, would have the task of establishing general elections across states. With the Senate directing elections, it could ensure objectivity and lack of corruption.

Regarding the secondary assembly, I belive we could establish several secondary assemblies divided by aggrupation of several states. These assemblies could be composed of regional governors, who would represent their state. That way, if a small crisis were to ensure on a state, it's neighbor states, who would be far more familiar with the state itself, would be able to act with more ease with the crisis."

Then she looks at the rest of the comitee

"Regarding Senator Adjran's speech, I must admit, it did surprise me. There are multiple exemples of effective centralised ststes, like the one of Fourth French Republic. INSTEAD, Senator Adjran here would prefer a dictatorship that purged, killed and erased any possibility of division.

Senator Alexander has stated it quite nicely, there is only one person who would benefit from such radical government and that would be Senator Adjran himself.

How Senator Adjran deal with a workers strike? How would Senator Adjran deal with the integration of all states? Why would the most prosperous states accept total subjugation?

Senator Adjran Tra, you call my proposal a cancerous growth, yet if my proposal would be a benign cancer compared to what you desire. You say no citizen would be happy under my proposal, yet in yours, they would be forced to be part of Concordia, whenever they wanted it or not!

If you are so sure about your words, name me at least five flaws from the Federalist proposal, without pompous talks this time"

Then Angelia turns towards Zhang.

"Let me make this clear, Mr. Zhang. My family wasn't from American, so this isn't patriotic talking. I would appreciate if you stopped your conspiracy theories, since we have established SEVERAL times that the proposal is for a federal system, not the recreation of the US of A.

Do you wish to know my personal ambition, Senator Zhang? It's to allow all citizens of Concordia to be safe and secure, and create a prosperous economy in which wage gap is minimal, while a government which cares about it's citizens ensures their rights are protected.

And if there is any reason for why I'm openly opposing Adjran, it's because he has done nothing but offer curtains of smoke, while twisting the words of everyone else, and ignoring the flaws of his system, which is only created to benefit him!"

With that Angelia sits down. She looks around for anyone else who has something to say

[TankKit]

Alexander nods at Angelias words and stands. "Indeed. There are positive examples of centralised governments, but Adjran has specifically chosen one of the worst examples, a style of government which would only benefit him if it were to somehow succeed in gaining control over Concordia. I am not against some centralisation, as it will likely be necessary to ensure the stability of our government, but I am against Adjrans idea of a centralised state.

As for all this talk about allegiances to Earth nations... I don't understand the point of it all. Perhaps some among you are old enough to of lived in Earth before arriving at Concordia, and you may feel inclined to support the ideas of the place where you came from, as is only human. But this is a new world, with a new culture and a new identity. To simply copy the systems of any Earth nation wholeheartedly would be disrespectful to what humanity has achieved in colonising this distant world. Whether we centralise or decentralise, we must adapt to our unique position and craft a government most suitable for managing a world instead of just clinging on to old world ideals."

With that, Alexander once more seats himself.

[Ghazkull]

Zhang blows a thick cloud of smoke before smiling. "Senator Angelia i believe it was? I wasn't talking to or about you, i was talking to the esteemed Senator Alexander here...but i find your strawmanning to be quite...amusing. Not only has Adjran spoken nowhere of dictatorship but simply of centralized government, you would have him outright murdering people in the streets. I have to say from where do you pull such wondrous accusations? Mind you i am playing devils advocate here but still i find it quite amusing that you call him out as pompous while screaming about death squads which were mentioned nowhere.

Any way i am getting tired of everyone blowing smoke out of their asses. How about this, since the esteemed speaker seems to be happy to have people shredding each other:

I move that the current state of government is maintained, all legislative and executive power being unified in this here body, to be elected by the people of Concordia. The assembly shall consist of..."

he starts counting off some number on his fingers.

"thirty five senators from Concordia, with one more added for every 100 million citizens. The Independent senators are to be renamed to be representatives with the right to observe the proceedings here and the right to present motions to this assembly, however without a right to vote.

Representatives are to be major business owners as well as leaders of religious and or ethnic minorities.

Secondly, this here Nation shall be called Confederacy of Concordia or Concordian Confederacy or whatever pleases the lot of you.

This gives us a central government, with all interest groups being represented according to their weight within this here Nation. No need for any Emergency Dictators like the Romans had, at least for now, that is and gives any potential Colonies a voice once they have reached the necessary size to be relevant. Most importantly it finally ends this pointless discussion of centralization versus federalization since the lot of you can present a proper fucking proposal to an actual elected body of folks instead of boring me to death with your mudflinging.

Now will anyone second this fucking motion so we can put this to a vote and move on to actual important business?"

With that Zhang sits back down, takes a deep draft of his cigar, mutters something about "bloody headaches" and drinks another draft from a flask he had stowed away on the inside of his suit.


Independent Zhang puts forth the motion for the following:

1. The Assembly is the main legislative (and for now), executive body of Concordia.
2. It consists of 35 Senators, with one added for every 100 million citizens.
3. The position of representative is to be filled by major businessmen, as well as leaders of ethnic and religious minorities, who can't get a senator.
4. Representatives have the right to observe the proceedings of the assembly, speak at them and put forth motions, but cannot vote.
5. Senators are of course to be elected.
6. The Nation shall be called Concordian Confederacy or Confederacy of Concordia.

[TankKit]

Alexander sighs and stands. "That doesn't solve any of the issues we are discussing, Zhang. The primary issue we are discussing here is how to deal with states and their position in this new government - something entirely ignored in your proposal. Though, I must admit, we seem to of veered somewhat off topic..." Alexander sits once more.

[Ardas]

The speaker rose from his seat and took to the central podium again.

"May I remind all the gathered to maintain a level of decorum and civility while in session..." he said at no one in particular, "but also to start putting proposals forward ((Bold bullet points/lists, like Ghaz did)), for the session to move into voting stage."

He took a short pause and looked around. "Still, as a representative of Landing Point and some of the Independents, I would like to extend my sympathy to an idea of a system where central government exists but local constituencies, that is, individual states and autonomic units, are maintained. Central government would maintain and improve on any overarching constitution and existing treaties, while each locality could get on with local by-laws and legislation for non-planetary matters. This in turn would set a precedent, where any off-planet habitations are also afforded some liberties where direct control from here will be impossible."

"Other elements, like voting, representation and government, will be taken as defacto from among existing proposals if only one remains on the table - it will be treated as an unanimous agreement on it."

The speaker looked around and took a short pause, before picking up again, this time in an official tone.
"To help expedite the submission of proposals, short recess will take place. Discussion in the chamber will resume shortly once proposals are submitted or only one remains."

The speaker stood down from the podium and the lights in the chamber dimmed ever so slightly. Guards opened the chamber doors and some people decided to stretch their legs or head down to the Assembly bar in the level below. 

[Kakaluncha]

((Wait, I was about to post my proposal, can I still do it?))

[TankKit]

((I think we should wait for a while first - the extra time is to allow us to make sure our proposals are good.))

Alexander takes the opportunity to leave, though he doesn't head in the direction of the Assembly bar.

[Ardas]

(( You can put up your proposals if you have them (just the bold writing mind you, without need for any RP), I will resume the session once we have some options to vote on, so no need to wait for things to resume, I can bend time if I want to ))

[Kakaluncha]

The Corporatist Union puts forth the motion for the following:

1. The creation of a federal system, located in Landing Point, which shall regulate the states, but these states will retain a certain degree of autonomy.

2. The creation of a primary assembly, which will be composed of all present parties, which be work to solve Higher Issues

3. The creation of several secondary regional assemblies, which shall deal with Medium Issues. These secondary bodies will be composed of states governors, who will be more familiar with the regional issues.

4. The establishment of the UN law as the official law. All states will be granted the right of adding any necessary law or removing any unnecessary law, but said changes will have to be approved by the primary comitee.

5. Following Point 1, the Corporatist Union also advocates for the creation of a Senate composed of a representative from each state, alongside the members of the primary assembly. This Senate will be the body to regulate taxes laws, banks, commerce...

6. Following Point 5, the Corporatist Union also advocates for the creation of an international force, which would only answer to the Senate. This force would be tasked with aiding states during Middle or Higher issues.

7. Following Point 5, the Senate would also have several sub bodies working on the legislative, judicial and executive powers, which would be separated from each other.

8. The Corporatist Union proposes our planet to be named the "Concordian Union". Any alternative proposal will be taken into consideration.

[hector13]

((when voting, do we vote for the motion in its entirety, or can we pick and choose elements? For example, voting for Point 1 of Kakaluncha's motion, but against Point 2?

Also, if we agree mostly with what another player has put in a motion, but not all of it, are we able to make amendments to vote on them instead, or do we need to have our own motions with broadly the same stuff but with the bits we don't like changed?))

The Peace and Prosperity Party brings forth a motion containing:

a) Members of the Colonial Assembly, hereby renamed the Concordian Senate, form the central government governing various aspects of life on Concordia, with the local provinces carrying on as they were hitherto.

b) The Concordian Senate is the primary legislative force upon Concordia, supported by provincial governments which are allowed to amend and add local laws to suit their local needs.

c) Membership of the Concordian Senate is decided by the people of Concordia, through a democratic voting process.

d) Representatives may otherwise be appointed by corporate or provincial interests, holding the same rights as Senators except the right to vote.

[TankKit]

Alexander suddenly returns to the assembly, paper in hand.

"I vote in favour of the motion put forth by the Corporatist Union and, with Angleias permission, include a 9th point within it.

9. The creation of the Office system which divides control of certain matters between the Senators best suited to dealing with them as described within this document."

Spoiler: The Offices Addendum (click to show/hide)

First is the Office of Law. The Senators holding power in the Office of Law have complete control over law reforms. They work in order to create a fair and just law. In case of a situation in which the law is unclear, the Office of Law will debate until a consensus is reached.

They also represent the judicial branch of the government in the Senate, and must have no known or commonly suspected criminal record, as well as holding a law degree. Finally, they have the power to judge a fellow Senator that has broken the law accordingly when the time comes. They are, however, also to be held accountable for any actions that the wider Senate deem to be against the spirit of the law and/or the good of the nation as a whole, and a majority vote may remove any power-abusing Senator from their office. When any position is empty, the Senate decides who to elect to the position by majority vote of those Senators who fill the requirements. If a chosen Senator refuses, a different Senator shall be chosen. This method also applies to all other offices.

Next is the Office of Finances. The Senators that hold this Office must also have no known or commonly suspected criminal record, as well as having a degree in economics, and be commonly deemed an honest person by the wider Senate before they can be elected to the Office by a majority vote. They do not have direct power over how the nation's finances are to be spent, though they are in charge of making sure taxes are paid in cooperation with the Office of Security, but they are also tasked with informing the lower levels of the main government on how much money is being directed to them and how it is to be spent.

They are also tasked with personally making sure that important documents containing information about the nations budget are accurate, and that no money is going missing through unknown and/or insidious means. This would be done through strict documentation of income and outcome.

If any of the Senators were to be suspected of corruption, they would be put under investigation. If said investigation were to reveal corruption, they would be subject to a majority vote to decide on whether or not they should be removed from office.

Third is the Office of Security, which would be the union of two different offices, The Office of the Army, and the Office of the Fleet.

 The Senators of the Office of the Army must have a military and/or police related past and be knowledgeable on matters of Security. The Senators holding this position would be in charge of enacting Senatorial decrees based around military or police based reforms, as well as ensuring the efficient training of international forces.

The Office of the Fleet will consist of several Senator who are engineers, have ship-building companies or are high ranking members of the military. They would receive funding from the wider Senate and be tasked with creating the ships asked for by the Senate while also improving ship construction costs and efficiency. If the economy is currently suffering a period of economic depression, the Senate has the power to halt any designs or ships currently under construction until the economic situation is deemed stable enough for ship construction to continue.

In the case of a violent emergency scenario or military conflict, the Senators holding positions in the Office of Security may choose to enact Emergency Marshal status, giving up all Senatorial powers in exchange for the necessary resources to solve the situation. These Senators are to be considered automatically stripped of this status once the issue has been dealt with, a wider general response has been gathered together to deal with the issue, or the Senate decides that resources are being wasted unnecessarily.

If any Senators on the Office of Security are deemed to be abusing their powers in any way by the wider Senate, they can be voted out of the Office by a majority vote and, if said majority vote is successful, judged by the Office of Law.

Finally, the Office of Business. The Senators holding this position are in charge of representing the wider interests of the many businesses present in the Concordian Union, and must be elected to it by majority vote. The Senators holding this office must be large business owners. The Senators holding this position are in charge of representing and enforcing guidelines and regulations on businesses, and must also represent the economic interests of these businesses as a whole and impartially, showing no favouritism to their own business or those of their close political allies. If any Senator is interested in any business programs they have in mind, they must present the Senators holding this position with their requests, proposals and motions for the Senate. If any Senator holding this Office is found guilty of failing to represent the interests of their fellow businesses, they may be voted out of office by a majority vote and a new vote shall be held to replace them.

Alexander then takes a seat and waits for discussion to continue.

[Ardas]

(( With respect to the motions, I assume that each proposal is a separate constitutional bill, unless, like Tankkit, someone decides to submit a modified version. Votes will proceed after all players who wanted to submit proposals do so, or enough time passes for me to assume we can move on. I know some of us aren't as fast in replying so I will give them time to catch up.))