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[sampeng1]

Are dormitories worth setting up at any point? For example near the workshop areas maybe? Is there an easier way for dwarves to get gems from the stockpiles? I heard the problem has some weird thing to do with the bins they are stored in but nobody really elaborated on it. And finally, how do I trade coins that are not made of gold? In one of my embarks I minted coins made of Electrum but I couldn't trade them for some reason.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I find it handy to throw up a dormitory at the beginning which will eventually be converted into the first barracks, then later way down deep when there's lots of guys working down there (when I start finding multiple magma-forge workers sleeping on the stairs is about the time I figure they need something, and their own food/booze pile). I don't know how effective it is at making dorfs happy. I prefer not to analyze these things too deeply. Some use it, so I guess it's OK.

How do you mean "get gems"? For trading? For gem workshop? Never found a problem for either using bins in a gem stockpile.

[PatrikLundell]

The bin problem is that bins are essentially bugged, which transforms them from very useful to being of marginal usefulness.

The issue is that when a bin is accessed to put something into it or retrieve something from it, access to all other items within the bin are blocked. This means that those items "don't exist" for jobs being generated during this period, and existing jobs trying to access the bin during the lockout fail because the item the job was tasked to use isn't available. The lockout period isn't the complete time an accessing job is active, but starts when the dorf nears the bin, and, presumably, ends as the dorf leaves (I've seen the nearing part, but not when it becomes available again).

This issue is particularly clear if you have a gem stockpile with cut and uncut gems and have repeat jobs to cut gems. Eventually a job to store an uncut or cut gem clashes with the gem cutter's access to the bin, at which time the repeat job is cancelled.

The bin issue could be fixed either by removing the simultaneous access lock (allowing an unlimited number of dorfs to root around in the same bin simultaneously, which is silly but harmless) while potentially causing issues with jobs to haul the bin (e.g. to the trade depot. There'd have to be a mechanism to lock the bin from new access while waiting for the current ones to finish, implying access would still have to be tracked), or it could be fixed by NOT hiding the items inside the bin unless the bin itself is hauled, and have the dorfs sort out the access themselves by spontaneously forming queues rather than just give up.

[FantasticDorf]

Binless setup is pretty much recommended unless you don't mind to ever see the goods you put in there ever again (low quality craftgoods not worth embellishing like bone crowns/rings etc), as a bin restricts more than one dwarf using a bin at a time and also restricts splitting out a mistakenly broad classification like Patriklundell helps point out.

Effective fix is to dump the container somewhere safe and isolated (i usually have a general *junk* pile for siege loot, moving starting supplies/bought caravan goods inside, and this sort of thing not far from my entrance) then mass dump the tile the container is on to another zone, which will set everything inside to also dump, then remove the container from the dumping designation. Dwarves will pull the contents out and put them in the new zone.

Works on everything from bins, barrels and bags to correct stockpile mistakes. Also worth mentioning that to bring things inside or throw your starting supplies through a channelled hole to quickly have them traverse z levels single click designating to dump the container object is very helpful, since you dont want to dump the liquid in a wine barrel you are trying to move either for the sake of mass designating.

The bin issue could be fixed either by removing the simultaneous access lock (allowing an unlimited number of dorfs to root around in the same bin simultaneously, which is silly but harmless) while potentially causing issues with jobs to haul the bin (e.g. to the trade depot. There'd have to be a mechanism to lock the bin from new access while waiting for the current ones to finish, implying access would still have to be tracked), or it could be fixed by NOT hiding the items inside the bin unless the bin itself is hauled, and have the dorfs sort out the access themselves by spontaneously forming queues rather than just give up.

Yeah I think bins probably will undergo some change eventually, it'd be nice if the goods were set up in 'aisles' inside so dwarves could simultaneously add and take things away from 3 different storage compartments roughly sorted by material in a bin so if one is occupied, its neighbor is open. Obviously improving same materials in bins for 3 times the input and draw and allowing them to more effectively share the same bin.

[Urist McVoyager]

This issue is particularly clear if you have a gem stockpile with cut and uncut gems and have repeat jobs to cut gems. Eventually a job to store an uncut or cut gem clashes with the gem cutter's access to the bin, at which time the repeat job is cancelled.

My own workshop design is usually an eight by eight room for the workshops, with each corner expanded into two 8x3 stockpile halls (Picture a # with the center as a single room.) So I've always, by default, split my gem stockpiles into rough and cut gems. With that design, as long as you wait for all the gems to be collected and stored first, you don't have much of a problem with bins.

[PatrikLundell]

Yes, if you don't mine after an initial rush you won't get any new gems. Eventually you'll probably run out of stone/ore/rooms and have to mine again, though, and that typically results in some gems being dug out.

I essentially bypass the need for bins by using Minecart Quantum StockPiles (QSP) all over the place, with bins only for garbage to be disposed via the trading caravan garbage disposal services.

[anewaname]

Are dormitories worth setting up at any point? For example near the workshop areas maybe?

If they do not have a bedroom, dwarfs will use any unassigned bed that is not part of a hospital or tavern. The unassigned beds do not need to be marked as a dormitory, but there may be a benefit, so go for it. I always keep 8 to 12 beds unassigned for migrant overflow.

Is there an easier way for dwarves to get gems from the stockpiles? I heard the problem has some weird thing to do with the bins they are stored in but nobody really elaborated on it.

Players tend to develop their own systems for stockpiles, fort design, defenses, etc. When players tell you that all bins are evil, it is near 100% likely that they are also using quantum stockpiles and other systems-of-doing-things that newer players haven't learned about yet, and they are avoiding using some DF things that new players find and use quickly, such as default stockpiles. Stockpile containers (including bins, barrels, and large pots) are a good way to collect some types of items. I have 200+ bins with items in them and I rarely receive messages related to bin-access, but I design stockpile systems based on understanding how the bins will be used by the dwarfs, and do not use default stockpiles.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)

Current list of filled bins in this fort...
66 Finished Goods bins, for low-quality crafts and low-quality clothing, near the depot for trading
25 Gem bins, most for rough gems, a few for cut gems and for glass
8 Cloth bins, some for thread and some for cloth, designed for limited use
38 Leather bins
2 Sheet bins
8 Ammo bins, for ammo types that hunters and marksdwarfs do not use (blowdarts, arrows, and non-copper/wood/bone bolts)
29 Bar/Block bins, for types of metal bars that are not recycled often
22 Armor bins, wood armor for trade, low-quality metal for melting, high-quality metal for uniforms
17 Weapon bins, wooden weapons for trade, low-quality metal for melting, high-quality metal for uniforms

Your issue with the jeweller's workshop and bins probably is due to the locking of the bin when items are being added to it, but this is not a good reason to avoid bins everywhere in your fort. I use separate stockpiles for rough and for cut gems, and do not have issues.

And finally, how do I trade coins that are not made of gold? In one of my embarks I minted coins made of Electrum but I couldn't trade them for some reason.

Treat coins as you would treat any other item. You should be able to bring them to the depot for trade, regardless of the type of metal they are made of. If you do not see an item on the depot's goods list, you need to look at the item and check your trade mandates.

[therahedwig]

Yeah, I mostly use bins in my bar stockpiles, because these get full really quickly, and bars don't generally get hauled anyway. Stupid thing is that the current bin situation is caused by an attempt to avoid dwarves for going back and forth for one single sock on the battlefield...

Anyway, I too always keep a dormitory for the start and migrants so I have some time to create housing (and a free place to nap doesn't prevent people from napping in the hospital, but does make it less likely). Beds are really cheap nowadays anyway. There's very little downside to it, besides dwarven ai sleeping in the dorms while there's perfectly good personal bedrooms and then complaining about it.

[Shonai_Dweller]

The only thing I don't keep in bins is ammunition. I get through a lot of them though because I play with hunters (another thing some of the posters above will no doubt tell you to never do). Bins (and hunters) seem to work just fine in my fortresses and certainly having the trade junk in bins saves a lot of time and dorfpower when the merchants turn up.

Am I playing wrong? I guess so. Seems fun to me, and there's no noticible cancel spam.

[PatrikLundell]

@Shonai_Dweller: If you want to use hunters, that's your choice. I can't be bothered with them. The only "don't" with them is not to put them into the militia unless you have figured out exactly how to deal with them.

The same goes for bins: they can be used if you know exactly how they can be used without too many issues, but are dangerous to those without that knowledge.

Of course you're playing it wrong! It's a sandbox game, so everyone playing it differently from me is doing it wrong ;P

[Iduno]

Are dormitories worth setting up at any point?

Depends on how you play?

I usually build my fortress on an as-needed basis. Starter workshops (what, you think I'm just going to bring a pick? I'll save the points to start with a steel anvil and materials to make everything out of.) are usually outside with the intention of being moved, with a large area for the trade depot and space for the militia to train near the entrance (but neither built until they are needed), then farms added, then bedrooms and food-related workshops nearby. When I get around to building non-food workshops, I build another set of bedrooms nearby, and build the dining room between them. I add more bedrooms and a secondary dining room when I get to magma forges, because I want those dorfs always working.

Now that sleeping without a bed and getting caught in the rain permanently traumatizes dorfs, I'll probably have to rework my strategy, but I'm hoping stress gets nerfed before I have to put in the effort.

The only thing I don't keep in bins is ammunition. I get through a lot of them though because I play with hunters (another thing some of the posters above will no doubt tell you to never do). Bins (and hunters) seem to work just fine in my fortresses and certainly having the trade junk in bins saves a lot of time and dorfpower when the merchants turn up.

Am I playing wrong? I guess so. Seems fun to me, and there's no noticible cancel spam.

Hunters are fine, and a decent way of pre-training crossbowdorfs. Especially in versions where archery training is bugged.

Bins are often less efficient, but they are a convenient way to move large amounts of stuff around the fortress.

[FantasticDorf]

Especially in versions where archery training is bugged.

I've never experienced any issues using the recommended archery range with ammo recollection setup before, its just a long and reasonably intensive progress to handle all that ammunition correctly and keep enough of it around in binless piles.

Perfectly doable on the latest version if you make the room first, assign 1 range per dwarf, repeat ten times for a full squad, size up the room and then dig the ammo recollection pits behind it so anything that misses will delicately just hit the floor and forbid itself.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Especially in versions where archery training is bugged.

I've never experienced any issues using the recommended archery range with ammo recollection setup before, its just a long and reasonably intensive progress to handle all that ammunition correctly and keep enough of it around in binless piles.

Perfectly doable on the latest version if you make the room first, assign 1 range per dwarf, repeat ten times for a full squad, size up the room and then dig the ammo recollection pits behind it so anything that misses will delicately just hit the floor and forbid itself.

Yeah, it's an odd comment to make. Archery works fine in the current version (and why use anything else?). It just takes a while to set up. I actually find it more satisfying to have people work as hunters before they graduate later to military (making sure to turn off the uniform of course), as experienced archers tend to use the range more. Pew pew.