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Author Topic: rewriting songs to dwarven  (Read 2699 times)

Pvt. Pirate

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rewriting songs to dwarven
« on: December 17, 2019, 11:19:39 am »

I just got reminded of the great song "when the hammer falls" and i think it might sound nice in dwarven too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xm96Cqu4Ils

Summary of the work already done by Solitarian
Quote
Original

down in the deep where the dragon used to sleep
glorious gold glimmers in our home of old
dark as the night where the day has lost its light
when the hammer falls

when the hammer falls and it sounds through the halls
when the hammer falls freeing treasures from the walls
when the hammer strikes and the kingdom comes to life
when the hammer pounds like the thunder underground
when the hammer falls
when the hammer falls

of legend and myth is the craft of the smith
the molten metal poured and pounded into sword
from the fire is made every dwarven axe and blade
when the hammer falls

when the hammer falls forging weapons for all
when the hammer falls songs of battle fill the halls
when the hammer flies lines of armored dwarves arise
with the hammer's roar we go marching off to war
when the hammer falls
when the hammer falls

the orcs came to our land and we fought them hand to hand
sweat and blood turned the ground to mud
dwarf and orc in strife sought to vanquish every life
when the hammer falls

when the hammer falls back our enemy crawls
when the hammer quakes orcish cowards' bones will break
when the hammer cracks and beats their armies back
when the hammer's boom sends the monsters to their doom
when the hammer falls
when the hammer falls

when the hammer falls then our victory calls
when the hammer falls songs of glory fill the halls
when the hammer flies mighty heroes will arise
with the hammer's sound live the dwarves down underground
when the hammer falls
when the hammer falls
Dwarven by Solitarian

Urtak Thol'ok Tangak'ok 'Zustmåmgoz'
Limul rab-udiz Zustashbom'ok-longArkim
Anan'osh'ol 'Umom sog-udiz Lotol'
Nil umid-udiz

Nil umid-udiz lok sárek Îton'iz
Nil umid-udiz lok eshim Idräthïngiz
Nil abod-udiz lok Osor emenasiz
Nil sárek-udiz Amud'osh Tholonol'iz
Nil umid-udiz
Nil umid-udiz

Eshtân lok Rigòth var-udiz Gomathoth
Stesokkel meban-ver lok ver-udiz deler
Mulonarkimlibash rigòth-ver Ziril'ach
Nil umid-udiz

Nil umid-udiz lok rigòth Umstiz'iz
Nil umid-udiz lok Osal lar-ver Anriz
Nil umid-udiz lok Arkim locun-udiz
Nil orrun-udiz lok sog-zalud Alnis'iz
Nil umid-udiz
Nil umid-udiz

Omer ùst-geth Nïr'üf lok Emenarkim bardum
Faknazush artob-geth Ol'ish
Ùzoluth stin'ok vunsch-geth Nïngthunenngilok
Nil umid-udiz

Nil umid-udiz Ùlur'ag Nistrur'iz
Nil ùshrir-udiz Okabomerosod'iz
Nil obot-udiz lok stukón Gedorêsik
Nil ozkak-udiz Shithath-longUshangasiz
Nil umid-udiz
Nil umid-udiz

Nil umid-udiz lok Stanïr un-udiz
Nil umid-udiz Shinosal'esh Îton'iz
Nil gigin-udiz Riraslocunobur'iz
Osal'esh-longNil Arkim var-udiz Riril
Nil umid-udiz
Nil umid-udiz
English Transscript by Solitarian

downward in the deep at the spot dragonbed
gold glows in the dwarves' ancient home
like the night where darkness conquers order
the hammer falls

the hammer falls and echoes around the halls
the hammer falls and frees the treasure ceiling
the hammer strikes and the kingdom strongly flashes
the hammer echoes like thunder around the deep mountain
the hammer falls
the hammer falls

smiths and crafts are a legendary knot
molten metal is streamed and becomes steel
every dwaren axe is crafted after fire
the hammer falls

the hammer falls and crafts during the sizzle
the hammer falls and songs are met by the sky
the hammer falls and dwarves rise
the hammer roars and will conquer during the war
the hammer falls
the hammer falls

greenness breached through the land and strong dwarves fought
drained blood combined between the mud
combatants in strife wished burning life evisceration
the hammer falls

the hammer falls on haters during retreat
the hammer quakes around broken green bones
the hammer cracks and squashes evil troopers
the hammer carries perishing of the monstrous flash
the hammer falls
the hammer falls

the hammer falls and the wreath approaches
the hammer falls with bright songs around the hall
the hammer flies around the greater rising hero
with the hammer's song dwarves are a fellowship
the hammer falls
the hammer falls
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 12:06:22 pm by Pvt. Pirate »
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Solitarian

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Re: rewiting songs to dwarven
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2019, 05:10:47 pm »

That sounds like a fun project. I'll see what I can do with that idea later. I'll be away from my computer for a while, though, so don't expect any updates for a few days.
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Pvt. Pirate

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Re: rewriting songs to dwarven
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2019, 01:47:23 pm »

that would be awesome :)
*getting restless waiting for this to happen*
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Solitarian

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Re: rewriting songs to dwarven
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2019, 03:27:18 pm »

I spent the last two hours translating the first verse. This is much more difficult than I anticipated! Finishing the translation will take some time. Anyway, here's the verse:

down in the deep where the dragon used to sleep      Urtak Thol'ok Tangak'ok 'Zustmåmgoz' (downward in the deep at the spot dragonbed)
glorious gold glimmers in our home of old                   Limul rab-udiz Zustashbom'ok-longArkim (gold glows in the dwarves' ancient home)
dark as the night where the day has lost its light       Anan'osh'ol 'Umom sog-udiz Lotol' (like the night where darkness conquers order)
when the hammer falls                                          Nil umid-udiz (the hammer falls)
« Last Edit: December 20, 2019, 03:42:35 pm by Solitarian »
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therahedwig

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Re: rewriting songs to dwarven
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2019, 04:51:15 pm »

... I thought you were actually talking about the Queen song, 'Waiting for the hammer to fall', which is a pretty appropriate song to DF as well.

I suspect the hardest part of translating is getting it to actually rhyme, though. Are the DF languages suited to poetry?
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Solitarian

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Re: rewriting songs to dwarven
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2019, 05:34:53 pm »

Hmm... that's another one to translate. Dwarven poetry is difficult to make like English poetry. Dwarven has a very limited vocabulary, and because I designed the language with lots of agglutinative endings (affixes, postpositions, markers), rhyming is very difficult without saying the same word over and over. "Nil umid-udiz" appears many times in this song, and there are not so many Dwarven words that end in -iz. However, if I change the rhyme scheme away from the English model of rhyming at the end, the task becomes much easier and more interesting. I have been dabbling with making the beginnings of lines rhyme instead of the ends. Maybe every line could have an odd number of syllables, and the middle syllable always rhymes?

Anyway, here are two more verses. This is difficult because I must give it ending rhymes and ensure that the syllables match the musical notes.

when the hammer falls and it sounds through the halls          Nil umid-udiz lok sárek Îton'iz (the hammer falls and echoes around the halls)
when the hammer falls freeing treasures from the walls         Nil umid-udiz lok eshim Idräthïngiz (the hammer falls and frees the treasure ceiling)
when the hammer strikes and the kingdom comes to life        Nil abod-udiz lok Osor emenasiz (the hammer strikes and the kingdom strongly flashes)
when the hammer pounds like the thunder underground         Nil sárek-udiz Amud'osh Tholonol'iz (the hammer echoes like thunder around the deep mountain)
when the hammer falls                                                    Nil umid-udiz (the hammer falls)
when the hammer falls                                                    Nil umid-udiz (the hammer falls)

of legend and myth is the craft of the smith                Eshtân lok Rigòth var-udiz Gomathoth (smiths and crafts are a legendary knot)
the molten metal poured and pounded into sword         Stesokkel meban-ver lok ver-udiz deler (molten metal is streamed and becomes steel)
from the fire is made every dwarven axe and blade       Mulonarkimlibash rigòth-ver Ziril'ach (every dwaren axe is crafted after fire)
when the hammer falls                                            Nil umid-udiz (the hammer falls)
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Pvt. Pirate

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Re: rewriting songs to dwarven
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2019, 08:44:50 am »

i'd need some practise, time and someone who can actually work with audio software and i'd sing it.
i tried it so far and it sounds nice.

oh and i guess we can just assume orks can be replaced by goblins here?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 08:47:40 am by Pvt. Pirate »
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delphonso

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Re: rewriting songs to dwarven
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2019, 09:55:25 am »

I can clean up vocal recordings and sing alright myself (some back up, perhaps). I agree it sounds good on first run.

Any musicians in the house?

Solitarian

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Re: rewriting songs to dwarven
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2019, 11:28:38 am »

Here it is. I apologize for the odd spacing on this page. I messed with it for a while but could not make it look good. Anyway, I'm not entirely happy with this translation, particularly because I often omitted tense markers for the sake of the rhyme scheme. I suppose that is acceptable because poetry tends to not perfectly follow grammar, but it still annoys me. Ending rhymes are a chore in Dwarven due to the amount of affixation, so I think I want to try making the beginnings of lines rhyme instead of the ends. Also, I wonder whether I should have translated "when the hammer falls" as "Nil umid-zilir". That's the imperative form, so the singer is commanding the hammer to fall. In English that would be something like "Fall, hammer!". I refer to orcs as Omer, which simply means green or greenness.

Do you truly intend to sing this? Considering Dwarven has no pronunciation rules, I'm not sure what you could do about the special characters (ú, â, î, etc.). I can tweak the translation if it seems awkward. Some of the lines don't rhyme very well, e.g. "Nil obot-udiz lok stukón Gedorêsik". In that line, udiz and êsik are supposed to rhyme. I pronounce every i with an "ee" sound, as in "feel", so the rhyme works somewhat if I stress the vowel and suppress the consonants.


down in the deep where the dragon used to sleep            Urtak Thol'ok Tangak'ok 'Zustmåmgoz' (downward in the deep at the spot dragonbed)
glorious gold glimmers in our home of old                         Limul rab-udiz Zustashbom'ok-longArkim (gold glows in the dwarves' ancient home)
dark as the night where the day has lost its light              Anan'osh'ol 'Umom sog-udiz Lotol' (like the night where darkness conquers order)
when the hammer falls                                                 Nil umid-udiz (the hammer falls)

when the hammer falls and it sounds through the halls       Nil umid-udiz lok sárek Îton'iz (the hammer falls and echoes around the halls)
when the hammer falls freeing treasures from the walls      Nil umid-udiz lok eshim Idräthïngiz (the hammer falls and frees the treasure ceiling)
when the hammer strikes and the kingdom comes to life     Nil abod-udiz lok Osor emenasiz (the hammer strikes and the kingdom strongly flashes)
when the hammer pounds like the thunder underground      Nil sárek-udiz Amud'osh Tholonol'iz (the hammer echoes like thunder around the deep mountain)
when the hammer falls                                                 Nil umid-udiz (the hammer falls)
when the hammer falls                                                 Nil umid-udiz (the hammer falls)

of legend and myth is the craft of the smith                    Eshtân lok Rigòth var-udiz Gomathoth (smiths and crafts are a legendary knot)
the molten metal poured and pounded into sword             Stesokkel meban-ver lok ver-udiz deler (molten metal is streamed and becomes steel)
from the fire is made every dwarven axe and blade           Mulonarkimlibash rigòth-ver Ziril'ach (every dwaren axe is crafted after fire)
when the hammer falls                                                Nil umid-udiz (the hammer falls)

when the hammer falls forging weapons for all                 Nil umid-udiz lok rigòth Umstiz'iz (the hammer falls and crafts during the sizzle)
when the hammer falls songs of battle fill the halls           Nil umid-udiz lok Osal lar-ver Anriz (the hammer falls and songs are met by the sky)
when the hammer flies lines of armored dwarves arise       Nil umid-udiz lok Arkim locun-udiz (the hammer falls and dwarves rise)
with the hammer's roar we go marching off to war            Nil orrun-udiz lok sog-zalud Alnis'iz (the hammer roars and will conquer during the war)
when the hammer falls                                                Nil umid-udiz (the hammer falls)
when the hammer falls                                                Nil umid-udiz (the hammer falls)

the orcs came to our land and we fought them hand to hand      Omer ùst-geth Nïr'üf lok Emenarkim bardum (greenness breached through the land and strong dwarves fought)
sweat and blood turned the ground to mud                              Faknazush artob-geth Ol'ish (drained blood combined between the mud)
dwarf and orc in strife sought to vanquish every life                  Ùzoluth stin'ok vunsch-geth Nïngthunenngilok (combatants in strife wished burning life evisceration)
when the hammer falls                                                         Nil umid-udiz (the hammer falls)

when the hammer falls back our enemy crawls                          Nil umid-udiz Ùlur'ag Nistrur'iz (the hammer falls on haters during retreat)
when the hammer quakes orcish cowards' bones will break          Nil ùshrir-udiz Okabomerosod'iz  (the hammer quakes around broken green bones)
when the hammer cracks and beats their armies back                Nil obot-udiz lok stukón Gedorêsik (the hammer cracks and squashes evil troopers)
when the hammer's boom sends the monsters to their doom       Nil ozkak-udiz Shithath-longUshangasiz (the hammer carries perishing of the monstrous flash)
when the hammer falls                                                         Nil umid-udiz
when the hammer falls                                                         Nil umid-udiz

when the hammer falls then our victory calls                            Nil umid-udiz lok Stanïr un-udiz (the hammer falls and the wreath approaches)
when the hammer falls songs of glory fill the halls                     Nil umid-udiz Shinosal'esh Îton'iz (the hammer falls with bright songs around the hall)
when the hammer flies mighty heroes will arise                         Nil gigin-udiz Riraslocunobur'iz (the hammer flies around the greater rising hero)
with the hammer's sound live the dwarves down underground     Osal'esh-longNil Arkim var-udiz Riril (with the hammer's song dwarves are a fellowship)
when the hammer falls                                                         Nil umid-udiz (the hammer falls)
when the hammer falls                                                         Nil umid-udiz (the hammer falls)
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Pvt. Pirate

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Re: rewriting songs to dwarven
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2019, 11:55:43 am »

that's amazing :) i'll reformat it and fit it into the first post - i used a table for that.

so you're pronouncing it as a mixture of german and english? :) if i sing it, it might be also audible to everyone that i'm german :D
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 12:06:57 pm by Pvt. Pirate »
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Solitarian

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Re: rewriting songs to dwarven
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2019, 12:23:20 pm »

Dann haben wir eine Gemeinsamkeit!

I speak English and German, and I also studied Latin and Swedish a little, so I tend to pronounce things germanically... is that a word? However, the pronunciation rules have not been decided (or even whether the special characters have different pronunciations at all), so my preferences are not decisive!
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 12:31:11 pm by Solitarian »
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Pvt. Pirate

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Re: rewriting songs to dwarven
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2019, 04:36:20 am »

i use soundsense and the songs by Simon Swerwer used simple english pronounciation for them... so it's already stuck that way :D
example with lyrics in video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1gF0uhHsqk
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Solitarian

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Re: rewriting songs to dwarven
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2019, 07:02:08 am »

But what is the difference between a, å, á, ä, and â in Dwarven? Surely these marks mean something, else they would not be written. I don't want the marks to be ignored and the letters all pronounced the same way. Perhaps ä represents the sound signified by that letter in German, and å can represent the sound signified by that letter in Swedish. I am very bad at phonetics, so I don't think I should be the one to codify pronunciation.
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Pvt. Pirate

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Re: rewriting songs to dwarven
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2019, 03:03:10 pm »

he used some of those like you said, but it's really difficult to explain, as i am no linguist either :D
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delphonso

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Re: rewriting songs to dwarven
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2019, 09:31:15 pm »

It's tough with diacritics, as different languages apply different meanings, and I don't know any that could apply all 4 ( a, å, á, ä, and â) to the a. If anyone knows a language which does, we could start there.

As far as IPA goes, å is unvoiced and ä is a voiced vowel, being a breathy voice. Á is an accent/tone mark for a high tone. Unfortunately, a plain a and the â aren't really IPA symbols, so this is a deadend.
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