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[voliol]

Worldgen dorfs can already dig too deep. It's just that the clowns just stay there, rather than flood the world. The fortress I've seen (probably 0.40.24) was a reclaim of a site where the spire consisted of Unknown Material where it had been breached and then re-sealed, with a limited number of clowns in the fortress itself.

Are we sure that breaching was a planned world-gen event? I could imagine there being a bug where generated fortresses accidentally break through spires upon site-map creation.

Oh, and as an argument against the HFS already being spoiled to all, have this recent reddit thread. A reminder that the categories of people who use the wiki and people who keep up with news (and thus spoilers) on the forum, are not fully overlapping.

Zach and Tarn have drawn a lot of pictures of creatures for donors. I think we ought to try to add them to creature pages where they exist, like the troll page has.  Is there a collection of crayon art they've sent out somewhere?

I don't think there is a collection of the crayon drawings other than the ones that are already on the wiki. I feel like this has been brought up somewhere else relatively recently, but my memory fails me... But it is a sound idea. I put mine up on the werebeast page.

[Shonai_Dweller]

The thing is, those workarounds are so incredibly un-fun ways to play the game. Lock people in a tiny tavern. Micro-manage this, micro-manage that. It's no surprise people on Reddit and such think the whole Locations system is broken when they see what lengths people go to to force their dwarves to be happy.

A quick raw change to make dwarves less vulnerable to stress works just as well and you can actually have fun playing the game.

Just worried that too much will turn new people right off playing at all. DF is already thought of incorrectly as a game that's "impossible to play without mods".

Withhold information because it's not fun enough? I don't understand that logic at all.  It's also very un-fun for new players to search forums and reddit to figure out how to solve these problems when there is a wiki that should be used as a single source of truth.  Why would you think changing the raws to make dwarves less vulnerable to stress wouldn't be the first and simplest solution in the stress guide?

Method 1 - edit these values in this file.

Method 2 - run remove-stress and fill-needs in DF Hack every few months.

Method 3 - run brainwash on troublesome dwarves.

Method 4 - Exile everyone in a bad mood & disable weather

Method 4-infinity - A bunch of micromanagement.

Right not the wiki simply says

Dwarves can quickly become stressed by exposure to corpses and body parts. Bug:7435

That's not how to operate a wiki, it's supposed to have detailed info to help people, this comment about a bug is at best not helpful for the current stress situation, at worst misleading about the the problem.

Yes. So long as the options are clear, then yes of course it should be on the wiki. Too often it's written as "xyz is broken, micronanage in this insanely boring way to deal with it or the game won't work".

[Severedicks]

Also, the DFHack wiki page is woefully undocumented. Should it just point to the manual on readthedocs? What about dfhack scripts that fix bugs, should they be mentioned?

[Pillbo]

Also, the DFHack wiki page is woefully undocumented. Should it just point to the manual on readthedocs? What about dfhack scripts that fix bugs, should they be mentioned?

Sounds like a good idea to me. At least adding the helpful link to docs, but also a laymen's write up of useful commands and ways to use df hack would be great for a wiki.

Does anyone know how to remove this? It serves no purpose, it should just redirect you instead of having you click it yourself.

[Pillbo]

I added a section for the managing stress discussion. I didn't make it it's own page because I need an account with a history to make one.  Please feel free to add anything you like to it, or clarify anything. I don't actually know the micromanaging ways of dealing with stress so I added the basic work arounds I could think of.

https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Stress#Managing_Stress

[Shonai_Dweller]

I added a section for the managing stress discussion. I didn't make it it's own page because I need an account with a history to make one.  Please feel free to add anything you like to it, or clarify anything. I don't actually know the micromanaging ways of dealing with stress so I added the basic work arounds I could think of.

https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Stress#Managing_Stress

Can exiled dwarves actually return in future migrant waves?

 I seem to recall some discussion of that and 1) It's not intended (so definitely is a bug if it happens) 2) Possibly doesn't actually happen at all, but exiled dwarves have been known to kind of turn up of their own accord. I imagine 2 means they're arriving as visitors (possibly bug).

[feelotraveller]

Also, the DFHack wiki page is woefully undocumented. Should it just point to the manual on readthedocs? What about dfhack scripts that fix bugs, should they be mentioned?

Sounds like a good idea to me. At least adding the helpful link to docs, but also a laymen's write up of useful commands and ways to use df hack would be great for a wiki.

Huh?  That page already contains the link to the documentation and has a section/comment on bugfixing.  In many ways it is an exemplary page in that it doesn't ramble about irrelevancies (unlike me  ). No point in repeating the commands and information contained in the manual that it already points to.

For an exhaustive list of and manual on the commands in the utility, see the documentation (link)

That sentence could perhaps be given a little more prominence by being its own paragraph, but that's about the only change I would personally suggest.

(There's also a dead link to Isoworld but I don't know about the status of that project and why it is missing a page: - at least in the short term - linking instead to http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Utilities#Isoworld might make sense.)

[Pillbo]

Can exiled dwarves actually return in future migrant waves?

 I seem to recall some discussion of that and 1) It's not intended (so definitely is a bug if it happens) 2) Possibly doesn't actually happen at all, but exiled dwarves have been known to kind of turn up of their own accord. I imagine 2 means they're arriving as visitors (possibly bug).

I've not experienced it, since I don't really exile, but I've read about it happening so I assumed that meant it was.  I can alter it and add a note.

Huh?  That page already contains the link to the documentation and has a section/comment on bugfixing.  In many ways it is an exemplary page in that it doesn't ramble about irrelevancies (unlike me  ). No point in repeating the commands and information contained in the manual that it already points to.

There are improvements that can be made. The Common Uses section should at least link to the relavent parts of the documentation, like in this section. Right now most of it is just a list of things to look up on a different website, not super useful that way. 

If someone is up for the task making simpler to understand instructions on how to use DFHack commands they would be useful in the wiki. I've read a lot of the docs and still get confused trying to use certain scripts, much is written for people with an understanding of scripts and coding.

This is the bug section:

Many bugfixes are included with DFHack, but not enabled by default - check dfhack.init to see if the "tweak *" and "fix/*" lines are commented out. The Starter Packs enable all bugfixes by default.

This should be written for laymen.  Wikis shouldn't assume people know what a commented out line looks like, so minor clarifications would be very helpful. A lot of people wouldn't even know how to open an .init file because their computers don't default open them in a text editor.

[Pillbo]

(There's also a dead link to Isoworld but I don't know about the status of that project and why it is missing a page: - at least in the short term - linking instead to http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Utilities#Isoworld might make sense.)

I fixed this link.

+++++++

I also found this redirect page, this should not redirect to Mountain gnomes, because there are also Dark gnomes.  If nobody knows how to remove it I can try to figure it out in a couple days.  I think replacing it with simple links to the two gnomes would be good.

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Gnome&redirect=no

[voliol]

(There's also a dead link to Isoworld but I don't know about the status of that project and why it is missing a page: - at least in the short term - linking instead to http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Utilities#Isoworld might make sense.)

I fixed this link.

+++++++

I also found this redirect page, this should not redirect to Mountain gnomes, because there are also Dark gnomes.  If nobody knows how to remove it I can try to figure it out in a couple days.  I think replacing it with simple links to the two gnomes would be good.

http://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=Gnome&redirect=no

It is now fixed. The "Bear" page was already a similar disambiguation page, so I used that as a base.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Can exiled dwarves actually return in future migrant waves?

 I seem to recall some discussion of that and 1) It's not intended (so definitely is a bug if it happens) 2) Possibly doesn't actually happen at all, but exiled dwarves have been known to kind of turn up of their own accord. I imagine 2 means they're arriving as visitors (possibly bug).

I've not experienced it, since I don't really exile, but I've read about it happening so I assumed that meant it was.  I can alter it and add a note.

If it's not on the tracker, it means no-one has been able to prove it, which generally means it doesn't exist. Best to be careful about adding stuff just based on forum talk.

You can add this one for exile bugs though:
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=10848

[lethosor]

Does anyone know how to remove this? It serves no purpose, it should just redirect you instead of having you click it yourself.

https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Animal_person does redirect as expected.
You linked to https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Animal_people&redirect=no - the "redirect=no" parameter in the URL prevents redirects from redirecting, which allows you to view/edit them, but isn't the default. (Maybe you followed the "redirected from" link on the "Animal person" page, or a link provided by someone else?)

[Pillbo]

Does anyone know how to remove this? It serves no purpose, it should just redirect you instead of having you click it yourself.

https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Animal_person does redirect as expected.
You linked to https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php?title=DF2014:Animal_people&redirect=no - the "redirect=no" parameter in the URL prevents redirects from redirecting, which allows you to view/edit them, but isn't the default. (Maybe you followed the "redirected from" link on the "Animal person" page, or a link provided by someone else?)

When you click this in the search box it brings me to that page with that url.  I actually wind up at this page pretty regularly, I never think to search it singularly.

[Pillbo]

Can exiled dwarves actually return in future migrant waves?

 I seem to recall some discussion of that and 1) It's not intended (so definitely is a bug if it happens) 2) Possibly doesn't actually happen at all, but exiled dwarves have been known to kind of turn up of their own accord. I imagine 2 means they're arriving as visitors (possibly bug).

I've not experienced it, since I don't really exile, but I've read about it happening so I assumed that meant it was.  I can alter it and add a note.

If it's not on the tracker, it means no-one has been able to prove it, which generally means it doesn't exist. Best to be careful about adding stuff just based on forum talk.

You can add this one for exile bugs though:
http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/mantisbt/view.php?id=10848

I'm not sure I completely believe that about the tracker, I've personally experienced bugs and never added them to the tracker because my bugtracker account never got approved and it was too much trouble to work out (whether or not that's a good excuse, it's reality and I'd assume it's common). I know I'm not alone, many redditors don't report things as most people there don't play without dfhack and therefore are told their bugs aren't considered tracker verifiable.  I changed the language and added that it needs verified and added it to research needed.

When in doubt, but you think it's useful information, just add it and someone will fix it later. If an item of information is not verified, it should be labeled for verification.

Added that bug, but again, everyone please feel free to add anything you know or find wherever it applies.  I only added my partial knowledge, I'm not claiming ownership of this piece of wiki.

[Shonai_Dweller]

The only issue is that people come to believe that if a bug is mentioned on the wiki, Toady must know about it. And then make outraged posts that Toady still hasn't fixed something he knows nothing about. Post a bug and a save and someone with Dfhack will test it if it's something that needs testing (exiled dwarves returning certainly isn't, neither are most others).

No-one is going to delete a bug just because the op doesn't have the means to test it. That's why there's a file server full of bugged saves, so that people who are able to look at them (including Toady) can.