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[Pillbo]

I have a suggestion that I've not ever tried to add because it would be a lot of work.  I think every token (creature, entity, item, etc) should get it's own category page which contains a list of every creature/entity/item/etc that contains that token in the raws.  That way people trying to learn to modify raws can click a token on a Tokens page and see exactly what that would effect and get an idea of what the token is used for.

For example look at this  chunk of Entity Tokens, none of this is clear, it should be re-written.  These two sentences reference 9 different tags with different attributes which apply to different creatures, it's not helpful if you aren't already in the know. But also, imagine you can click EVIL, SLOW_LEARNER, CAN_LEARN, PET, PACK_ANIMAL, WAGON_PULLER, MOUNT, MOUNT_EXOTIC and TRAINABLE_WAR and go to a category page which tells you every creature which that tag applies to.

Don't have it -> EVIL creatures skipped. If they have it, evil creatures with SLOW_LEARNER or without CAN_LEARN will be also available as pets (with PET), pack animals (with PACK_ANIMAL), wagon pullers (with WAGON_PULLER), mounts (with MOUNT or MOUNT_EXOTIC), and siege minions (with TRAINABLE_WAR or SLOW_LEARNER), even the normally untameable species.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Are the entity raws posted on the wiki anywhere? Each creature has a wiki entry with its creature raws attached to the end. But civilized creature entries like "dwarf" are predominantly descriptions of the entity, not the creature. Seems odd to then conclude with a link to the creature raws and not the entity. If anyone were trying to learn anything about the main races using the wiki it'd be helpful to have both.

Bugs and their workarounds should be in a section at the end of the page and not mixed in with the rest of the text. Makes deleting them later much easier. We're having a community wiki push right now, but things will slow down again in a year or two.

[lethosor]

Note that there is a wiki board. I'm totally fine with this thread being here if it gets more visibility this way. When it comes to reporting wiki issues, though, making a new thread in the wiki board will notify me right away (although do make sure you're not duplicating another thread). I didn't even know this thread existed until I was linked back to it from there.

At any rate, the wiki problem seems to have resolved itself. I don't actually know what caused it, so if you notice it again, leave a message on my wiki talk page (if you're able to), or post in the wiki board, or PM me if that doesn't work, etc.. I'll try to figure out how to prevent this if it happens again - sorry for the delay there.

Are the entity raws posted on the wiki anywhere? Each creature has a wiki entry with its creature raws attached to the end. But civilized creature entries like "dwarf" are predominantly descriptions of the entity, not the creature. Seems odd to then conclude with a link to the creature raws and not the entity. If anyone were trying to learn anything about the main races using the wiki it'd be helpful to have both.

They are accessible with DFRawFunctions (an extension we have on the wiki); however, the standing convention is to include creature raws on creature pages (similarly, the pages for dwarves, elves, etc. have the creature sidebar). I can try to piece together how to access the entity raws using the extension if you think that would be helpful, though.

For anyone less familiar with what templates/etc. are available:

-Don't say "in the new version" or anything like that. The "new version" is nearly two years old (some of the stuff is five years old)

Agreed. It's worth linking to the community portal, specifically Rule T (we have namespaces for a reason!). For larger sections about things that were added in specific versions of "DF2014" (0.42.01, 0.43.05, etc), there's {{new in}}. For smaller bits (e.g. sentences), {{version}} works.

-Mention bugs if there are any, and ideally workarounds

Also link to them with {{bug}} to make it easier to figure out if they're fixed.

-Don't say silly stuff like "candy", "clown" or "circus". No one's ever been spoiled by demons since DF2014. If you really must, say "HFS" like Toady, and only for demons. Adamantine hasn't been a spoiler for 10 years now

For anyone concerned about giving away too much, there are some spoiler templates you can use.

-Don't just link to a post, actually copy and paste the post and editorialize it. It's a wiki, not a links collection
--snip--
-Try to search Toady's forum posts for stuff, especially in FotF he sometimes gives out a lot of information
-It seems everyone's on Reddit now, and you can find useful scattered info there. Of course, this being reddit, it's a pain to search and browse. One more reason to centralize all info on the wiki

(do be careful to avoid copyright issues - there are also some basic citation templates available)

[Silverwing235]

Needing some minor !!SCIENCE!! done so the results may be transcribed later:

Your character will have a limit on the maximum number of companions, that is based on your reputation level and the Social Awareness attribute. With average social awareness and the maximum level of fame, the limit is 19 companions.

What, exactly, is the limit when assuming maximum (Legendary) social awareness, and fame? 

[pikachu17]

Does anywhere in the Wiki show you how you can rename buildings now?

[Shonai_Dweller]

Started adding some sentences to museums, sculpture gardens and such to mention that they can be assigned to locations now rather than just individual dwarves or not at all. Will work through the various furniture/location entries to make sure the info is included in each part (slowly, but seems like fun so should get through all of it in a couple of days).

Will also do some testing at the weekend to see if non-assigned museums/gardens/etc actually do anything at all now (I'm thinking perhaps not, except as a place for kids to play).

Yeah, the renaming buildings function should be mentioned in all the workshop/lever/stockpile, etc. entries if it's not there already.

Also, agree with above, please don't make entries for demons, angels etc and then spoiler tag the entire thing. It's pointless. Legends Mode includes all the information on these entities these days, it's not secret and will only get more and more annoying come Mythgen.

[Pillbo]

Touching on stress one more time:

For a bug that has such in depth work arounds and information, it could merit it's own page. Something like 'Managing Stress Guide for V44.12'. That's a pretty normal thing on standard wikipedia, and if we did that there would be no worries about it being left behind in the Stress page after the problem is fixed.

That said, I'm not arguing that it needs to be done, just that if someone wants to volunteer to collate that data and write it up they should feel free to.  As of now people are looking for that info constantly, that to me seems wiki-worthy even if it's going away soon.

I also agree on the spoilers issue, everyone knows about demons and adamantine, it accomplishes nothing to talk about it in code or put it in spoiler boxes.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Touching on stress one more time:

For a bug that has such in depth work arounds and information, it could merit it's own page. Something like 'Managing Stress Guide for V44.12'. That's a pretty normal thing on standard wikipedia, and if we did that there would be no worries about it being left behind in the Stress page after the problem is fixed.

That said, I'm not arguing that it needs to be done, just that if someone wants to volunteer to collate that data and write it up they should feel free to.  As of now people are looking for that info constantly, that to me seems wiki-worthy even if it's going away soon.

I also agree on the spoilers issue, everyone knows about demons and adamantine, it accomplishes nothing to talk about it in code or put it in spoiler boxes.

The thing is, those workarounds are so incredibly un-fun ways to play the game. Lock people in a tiny tavern. Micro-manage this, micro-manage that. It's no surprise people on Reddit and such think the whole Locations system is broken when they see what lengths people go to to force their dwarves to be happy.

A quick raw change to make dwarves less vulnerable to stress works just as well and you can actually have fun playing the game.

Just worried that too much will turn new people right off playing at all. DF is already thought of incorrectly as a game that's "impossible to play without mods".

[Fleeting Frames]

Related: Calculation value of armor quality and armor user level? And its status on wiki. - considered posting that in this thread, but reconsidered on account of the topic, properly pursued, being possibly large enough to get more replies than this thread has gotten yet. Still, contradictory incomplete information is :/

[Bumber]

I also agree on the spoilers issue, everyone knows about demons and adamantine, it accomplishes nothing to talk about it in code or put it in spoiler boxes.

Digging too deep should still be a spoiler. You can know about demons in legends and adamantine in economic stones without knowing about hollow spires.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I also agree on the spoilers issue, everyone knows about demons and adamantine, it accomplishes nothing to talk about it in code or put it in spoiler boxes.

Digging too deep should still be a spoiler. You can know about demons in legends and adamantine in economic stones without knowing about hollow spires.

You know worldgen dwarves are going to be able to dig too deep in the next version, right?

[Bumber]

You know worldgen dwarves are going to be able to dig too deep in the next version, right?

We'll have to see how much info legends gives away.

[PatrikLundell]

Worldgen dorfs can already dig too deep. It's just that the clowns just stay there, rather than flood the world. The fortress I've seen (probably 0.40.24) was a reclaim of a site where the spire consisted of Unknown Material where it had been breached and then re-sealed, with a limited number of clowns in the fortress itself.

[Pillbo]

The thing is, those workarounds are so incredibly un-fun ways to play the game. Lock people in a tiny tavern. Micro-manage this, micro-manage that. It's no surprise people on Reddit and such think the whole Locations system is broken when they see what lengths people go to to force their dwarves to be happy.

A quick raw change to make dwarves less vulnerable to stress works just as well and you can actually have fun playing the game.

Just worried that too much will turn new people right off playing at all. DF is already thought of incorrectly as a game that's "impossible to play without mods".

Withhold information because it's not fun enough? I don't understand that logic at all.  It's also very un-fun for new players to search forums and reddit to figure out how to solve these problems when there is a wiki that should be used as a single source of truth.  Why would you think changing the raws to make dwarves less vulnerable to stress wouldn't be the first and simplest solution in the stress guide?

Method 1 - edit these values in this file.

Method 2 - run remove-stress and fill-needs in DF Hack every few months.

Method 3 - run brainwash on troublesome dwarves.

Method 4 - Exile everyone in a bad mood & disable weather

Method 4-infinity - A bunch of micromanagement.

Right not the wiki simply says

Dwarves can quickly become stressed by exposure to corpses and body parts. Bug:7435

That's not how to operate a wiki, it's supposed to have detailed info to help people, this comment about a bug is at best not helpful for the current stress situation, at worst misleading about the the problem.

[Pillbo]

Another Suggestion:

Zach and Tarn have drawn a lot of pictures of creatures for donors. I think we ought to try to add them to creature pages where they exist, like the troll page has.  Is there a collection of crayon art they've sent out somewhere?