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[Shonai_Dweller]

What does everyone think about questions asked here or in /r/dwarffortress (not official) that go into more detail into the mechanics of the game? Right now, for example, there's a question about what happens to items you sell to other civilizations. There's a bunch of questions about the vanilla game that you can't find on the wiki, and I was wondering whether the wiki should include more in depth information on the game. For example, on /r/dwarffortress, there's a question about what happens to the items you trade with other civilizations. Do they use it, does it just despawn? etc. It's not my question, if you must know, but these kind of questions are things anyone would think, but you would have to ask them instead of them being documented already. The wiki feels full of incomplete information or perhaps just full of basic information.

So is the wiki for basic information on the game or a complete source of information on the game?

That is all for now.

Stuff which isn't on the wiki is generally stuff that isn't known since it's really hard to test. It's not left out because someone thought people didn't need to know. That and really new stuff that people just haven't gotten around to checking yet.

Toady's the only person who can answer the simulation questions with any real degree of accuracy (and even then it'd be "this is how it's supposed to work, there may be bugs"). If you wanted to add something no-one knows, ask in fotf and go straight to the wiki when the answer comes and add it.

[lethosor]

My thoughts on the matter: if there's information missing from the wiki, add it. That's why it's a wiki! (Of course, that's assuming the information is available - if not, a talk page or a forum thread like this one would be a good place to discuss.)

[Bumber]

Some information on attack modifiers from a DF Talk:

So right now you have four choices. You don't have to take any of them. You can just do a regular attack which in general will take three steps in and three steps out, or you can do a quick attack which will be two steps in and two steps out. Sort of like a jab or a little stab or something. But that decreases the velocity of your attack by fifty percent so you wouldn't be able to penetrate maybe even certain leather armours or whatever with your dagger or whatever. And so if you want to do a little, little jab though, and get it in quickly before the, before the person lands an attack, and you think you can get some mileage out of that then you can do that. You can also do a heavy attack which makes it four steps in and four steps out but increases the velocity by fifty percent. And then there's the wild attack which is kind of a roll of the dice, you do two steps in and then something like five steps out. So you're just kind of going in really fast, you get the velocity bonus, but you have a minus to hit. And you also become unbalanced and unsteady for some turns while you're recovering. So that people can hit you easier but if you really have a... if it's a desperate thing, you can do that.

And then the final option we have was a precise attack. It's five steps in so you are really taking your time and you get an increased roll which kinda increases everything about the attack. [...] And then the final option in the menu is the, the option to set it as a multiple attack and then you can go in and then add another action like a moving away or climbing while you're doing this one attack. Or you can choose another attack if you want to do something like stab, stab two daggers at once. The penalties are massive so it's, it's not something you really wanna do. It's more for like, stylishly stabbing somebody a bunch of times when they're unconscious. Or when you're sneaking up behind them and you wanna jab two daggers in their ribs or whatever. [...] Then you can go ahead and take the massive, kinda seventy five percent cut to your roll or whatever [...]

To summarize:
Quick = -50% velocity
Heavy = +50% velocity
Wild = +50% velocity, -accuracy, unbalanced during recovery (easier to hit)
Precise = increased roll (accuracy+damage?)
Multi = -75% roll?

Might need to do some science to determine what values were actually implemented.

[octain]

Can I make a suggestion for the Wiki? On pages that have items, could we include the stockpile/s go in? I was thinking they could go in the table on the right.

[voliol]

Can I make a suggestion for the Wiki? On pages that have items, could we include the stockpile/s go in? I was thinking they could go in the table on the right.

Quoting this not because I've reached the level where I know how to edit wiki templates, but as it is a good idea I don't want to bury.

I added the new night creatures to the "Creature" page. Once again was I reminded of how barebones the infected ghoul article is, not to mention the nightmare one... There are articles, though, perhaps the top post could be updated to include them? It seems it hasn't been in a while.

[Defensive kobra]

a thing i think should be included in the wiki that would make the adventurer mode section a lot better (but not nessesarily related to the newest release) is a table that shows how many skill points / attribute points you need to spend to reach certain skill levels or certain levels of abillity as just a sort of general utillity, not knowing exactly what you can and cannot make with the character creator before you get started can be a bit frustrating, such a tool would be really helpful and would be rather easy to research.

Another addition i think would be very useful, for the creature token page https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Creature_token instead of clicking on the blue token just leading you back to the same page and the same spot, each should link to the category page where creatures containing that token, so for instance instead of linking you to https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Creature_token#LAYS_EGGS it links you to https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:DF2014:Milkable An link linking you to the same page and the same place on the same page feels kinda pointless

[voliol]

a thing i think should be included in the wiki that would make the adventurer mode section a lot better (but not nessesarily related to the newest release) is a table that shows how many skill points / attribute points you need to spend to reach certain skill levels or certain levels of abillity as just a sort of general utillity, not knowing exactly what you can and cannot make with the character creator before you get started can be a bit frustrating, such a tool would be really helpful and would be rather easy to research.

Good idea. I did some, but now have to respect my sleeping schedule. Feel free to fill in while I'm gone.

Another addition i think would be very useful, for the creature token page https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Creature_token instead of clicking on the blue token just leading you back to the same page and the same spot, each should link to the category page where creatures containing that token, so for instance instead of linking you to https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Creature_token#LAYS_EGGS it links you to https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/Category:DF2014:Milkable An link linking you to the same page and the same place on the same page feels kinda pointless

Yeah, the problem is that there is no category pages for most of the tokens, it's mostly just the ones that existed way back in the 2D versions when the raws where way simpler. It could be done, of course, but would require a fair share of work and maintenance.

[lethosor]

Another addition i think would be very useful, for the creature token page https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Creature_token instead of clicking on the blue token just leading you back to the same page and the same spot

For reference, that gives you a URL you can use to link directly to the token, which is useful in some cases. (It would definitely be possible to have some other icon do this, though.)

[voliol]

I did a write-up on starting a new namespace for the Premium release. I didn't want to clutter this thread though (and wanted higher visibility) so I put it in its own thread.

[Rekov]

Is the Premium release not going to break saves?

Anyways, we really need a systematic way for going about this.

What if we created a new quality level called "needs review" or something similar. We put all of the current DF2014 articles into that quality level. And then we only take articles back out once they've been reworked and/or checked over. You could make a procedure for that too. An article has to be checked over by X number of people before it's let back out of the box.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Is the Premium release not going to break saves?

It's not planned to break saves, but it needs to be good so saves will be broken if it's necessary. Was the last thing Toady said on the matter.

Big Wait is planned as a proper save-breaking update/rewrite.

[voliol]

Anyways, we really need a systematic way for going about this.

What if we created a new quality level called "needs review" or something similar. We put all of the current DF2014 articles into that quality level. And then we only take articles back out once they've been reworked and/or checked over. You could make a procedure for that too. An article has to be checked over by X number of people before it's let back out of the box.

The question is how to see whether X people have checked it over. Most "objects" (e.g. creatures, materials) require much less attention than, say, the artifact article, so the amount of checks would also have to vary.

I'm definitely for some other procedure than the top post of a forum thread, as those require frequent attention, and Pillbo is seemingly busy at the moment. This is fully understandable, but it is for the best if a community project doesn't balance on top of one single person.

[voliol]

*bump*

Found another old "wiki project", that is some kind of DF community project hosted on the wiki, in form of the Bloodline Succession League. It hasn't been updated in any way since 2013, and is thus in all likelihood dead. Considering I've previously encountered the Ark Project, equally run-down and written in present-tense, I worry that there are more of these lurking in the corners of the wiki, filled with outdated info. This is not the most worrying thing; they have avoided revision for so long, and so they must be well-hidden even to the wiki-users (and newbies) they could possibly confuse. Still, they are yet another thing to put on the todo-list.

[Jundavr]

Another thing that needs to be updated is the Need page. A lot of info about that is already confirmed but not added there.

Some texts on how to fulfill certain needs are marked as uncertain, and some stuff is outright missing, such as "see great beast". Some are incomplete, such as "help somebody", that can be fulfilled by a leader holding a meeting with an unhappy dwarf and by anyone rushing to defend someone who got into a fight (another behavior that I believe needs further documentation).


There's also the Facet page, specifically the "effects" tab of each value.
A lot of the personality values affect how susceptible dwarves are to stuff, on emotional and historical levels, and most is missing from there. In fact, the page even acknowledges that but doesn't specify the details on the respective traits. For example, it's written that dwarves with very low LOVE_PROPENSITY don't form bonds and those with a higher value make bonds more easily, but that isn't described in the "effects" tab of the trait itself.

I believe there's a demand for !SCIENCE! on how and what changes the personalities of dwarves, and the probabilities relating such changes. I've seen dwarves who love nature stop caring about it after being rained on, and dwarves who absolutely despise nature start holding it in the highest of regards after the same event. Also, gaining family members seems to always raise TRANQUILITY and LOVE_PROPENSITY. As another top of the head example there's the ever famous miasma of psychological doom, that causes otherwise unstressable dwarves to become whiny pushovers and break down easily by raising their STRESS_VULNERABILITY to the maximum level.

[BlueManedHawk]

I'd like to make a note of something:  The wiki says on https://dwarffortresswiki.org/index.php/DF2014:Trading#Merchant_mood that

Dwarven merchants start off wanting about a 100% profit, maybe a little more.

However, I was able to get a few trades with zero profit margarine for anybody while the merchant was only "willing to trade".

I'm not quite sure what to make of this, but I thought I'd put it here, since it seems somewhat relevant to this.