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[dolores]

New question: why claim a powerful role early on, thus painting a target on yourself?

Maybe that's my intention?

Wonder of wonders, I've got-- of all things-- concrete D1 mechanical information!

ｄｕｄｅ
are you a wizard?

There is a Save ability in play.
There is a Brainwash ability in play.
There is an Infect ability in play.
There are at least two Prime/Ignite abilities in play.

The 'at least two' suggests this isn't an exclusive list. It's more than half the players (rounded down, which it is) so I guess it's half the powers?
Super not cool with there being an infect ability in play.

[Superdorf]

Superdorf: any particular meta tells (regarding other players) you feel it's important to highlight now for the benefit of those players who aren't aware of them?

Well let's see now...
- TricMagic has in past been rather erratic with his posting, giving him a scummy appearance regardless of his alignment.
- Naturegirl's relatively new to the mafia scene, and possibly unsure how to go about a scumhunt. (Mind, I've only ever seen her scum-game.)
- I bluster more than Naturegirl does, but I'm pretty new here myself; I'm clumsy with my scumhunting and I tend to shut down when put to pressure. (These are aspects of my play I should like to improve on.)

How did you determine this mechanical information?

I got lucky with the proc-gen!

The 'at least two' suggests this isn't an exclusive list. It's more than half the players (rounded down, which it is) so I guess it's half the powers?

I'm not sure, but I think I got a randomly chosen list of half the powers, then got a second randomly chosen list of half the powers.

[Persus13]

Its only been an hour since the game started and I keep getting preempted by new replies. Good to see activity right out of the gate, hopefully that keeps up.

Shadowclaw: Nice to see a new face, but that probably means you're going to be getting a fair amount of attention right out of the gate. How do you think you'll handle that?

Deus Asmoth: Census or random inspect, which would you rather have?

Superdorf:

Persus13: Who here would be least dangerous as a serial killer?

There isn't really anyone here that I'd describe as being easy to out as an SK, and Shadowclaw I know very little about. Whereas I'm pretty low key in general and don't really like playing SKs, so I wouldn't consider myself to be particularly good at it. So probably me?

How do you feel about your confidence level now that you've gotten some more games under your belt? Did you feel nervous about dropping that census info? What are you looking forward to in this game?

Naturegirl:

I’m thinking your role has something to do with cops, maybe it triggers when a cop has you as their target? Maybe you’re a cop? Maybe your role causes your target to be seen as a cop even if they might not be? Proc gen roles could be lots of things. I’m thinking on questions. Previous questions I asked in the last game seem to have been unhelpful. I want to make sure my questions aren’t useless

FYI, the code for the generator is freely available, so you can actually look at the code to determine what role combinations are possible. Of course, if you think someone is town, speculating on their role in thread might not be wise.

dolores:

Persus13: theres a developing duologue between myself and ICT about the importance of intentionally disruptive play as scum. Do you think it's reasonable to interpret emotionally manipulative tactics as scummy? Does this only apply to certain players, or to everyone?

Emotionally Manipulative tactics is a pretty vague term to me, so I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about. Mafia tactics are usually something I'm not super fond of theory crafting over, mainly because they do tend to vary from person to person though.

[dolores]

FYI, the code for the generator is freely available, so you can actually look at the code to determine what role combinations are possible. Of course, if you think someone is town, speculating on their role in thread might not be wise.

It's way more pressing that NG put together their RVS questions.
That said, I'm going to have to disagree with you on speculating on town player's roles. Scum are doing the same thing, except they have a scumchat and the list of their own roles (and the knowledge that the player isn't scum) to do it with. Speculating on roles in thread is a bad idea if it's wifom, which is virtually always is, but it's not, like, dangerous to the person in a way that what they have done to out themselves isn't dangerous to them in the first place.
Plus, it tells me what they're thinking.
Superdorf thinks there's a target on me. I'm happy with that. You can speculate why, but if you do so in thread you won't be exposing me. I think you'd be wasting space, though.

Emotionally Manipulative tactics is a pretty vague term to me, so I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about. Mafia tactics are usually something I'm not super fond of theory crafting over, mainly because they do tend to vary from person to person though.

Right, it's a reference to a series of discussions in threads I guess you didn't read. Let me try again.
Persus13: you've suggested the idea to Naturegirl to look at the role generator instead of engaging with the daygame. Was this your intention? If not, how could you let this happen?

[IcyTea31]

Who here do you expect to butt heads with most, these coming Days?

The veteran players, at least in a standard game. In a setup as weird as this, predictions are hard to make.

Which would you consider to be more important in a game like this: to know someone's abilities, or to know someone's alignment?


Naturegirl1999:
I haven't read my role PM yet. Why do you think that is?

you're a cop who has received a guilty result on a player your get tells you is 100% town. No other players have claimed and it's D2. How do you proceed?

Is this your miller claim?

Emotionally Manipulative tactics is a pretty vague term to me, so I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about.

In TricMagic's ByoS Mafia, I faked flipping the table and leaving the game. I didn't tell dolores, my then-scumbuddy about the strategy in order to keep things realistic. It was an admittedly very dirty move that led to an already-apathetic town to die with a whimper. It won the game, but it's not a strategy I'm going to repeat anytime soon.

With that context in mind, how important do you believe gauging other players' emotional states is for scumhunting?


FallacyofUrist:
Why am I not asking TricMagic a question?


Deus Asmoth:
If you were a dayvig, what would be the least scummy statement one could make that would make you shoot them immediately regardless of past scumminess or lack thereof?


Shadowclaw777:
What number am I thinking of? Why is it important to this game?

[Superdorf]

How do you feel about your confidence level now that you've gotten some more games under your belt?

On the one hand, I begin to develop a feel for the progression of these games. On the other hand... I've no idea whether I'll be able to keep up with the pace as things grow heated around here, and the thought of messing up on anything still worries me greatly. But we'll see what happens!

Did you feel nervous about dropping that census info?

About the census info? Nah. I've got an extra chance to be useful, right from the game's start! This is great!
I did consider for a minute whether it'd be better to wait for more words before I said anything. In the end, I decided the more information we have the sooner the better.

What are you looking forward to in this game?

- Building a scum-case on somebody, and being right. That would be nice.

[dolores]

you're a cop who has received a guilty result on a player your get tells you is 100% town. No other players have claimed and it's D2. How do you proceed?

Is this your miller claim?

I wasn't aware that there are millers in this. I'm also not going to check to see if there actually are.
Sure, I'm a miller. I'm a miller in every game, why not. Why would you ever not claim miller.
If I'm 100% town, that means I'm immune to nightkills. Am I immune to nightkills, ICT?
Also, any thoughts on players not voting so far in the random voting stage?
I don't normally like mechanical discussion in general, not least on D1. Why am I being such a hypocrite and making a claim play?
Superdorf
Other than feeding me a question right away, you've done nothing but answer questions since your RVS questions.
Why haven't you asked any more questions? Is there nothing that's transpired so far that you want more information on?

[Persus13]

Emotionally Manipulative tactics is a pretty vague term to me, so I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about. Mafia tactics are usually something I'm not super fond of theory crafting over, mainly because they do tend to vary from person to person though.

Right, it's a reference to a series of discussions in threads I guess you didn't read. Let me try again.
Persus13: you've suggested the idea to Naturegirl to look at the role generator instead of engaging with the daygame. Was this your intention? If not, how could you let this happen?

I let it happen because this question is ridiculous. Telling a player to familiarize themselves with the moving parts of how a game works is not telling them not to interact with the daygame. I like having fun in a game, and other people not knowing the rules of the game is less fun for me.

IcyTea:

Emotionally Manipulative tactics is a pretty vague term to me, so I'm not entirely sure what you're talking about.

In TricMagic's ByoS Mafia, I faked flipping the table and leaving the game. I didn't tell dolores, my then-scumbuddy about the strategy in order to keep things realistic. It was an admittedly very dirty move that led to an already-apathetic town to die with a whimper. It won the game, but it's not a strategy I'm going to repeat anytime soon.

With that context in mind, how important do you believe gauging other players' emotional states is for scumhunting?

Okay, that crosses a line because it means emotionally vulnerable people can't actually get support because people think they are scum. Like I would probably ban you from playing in a game I ran unless you apologized.

[IcyTea31]

If I'm 100% town, that means I'm immune to nightkills. Am I immune to nightkills, ICT?

Also, any thoughts on players not voting so far in the random voting stage?

I don't normally like mechanical discussion in general, not least on D1. Why am I being such a hypocrite and making a claim play?

I'm not sure I follow your logic. Do you mean a mechanical immunity, where kills don't work, or a social immunity, where kills are not attempted?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I don't see a reason to wave my vote around like a helicopter-dick while less powerful techniques still work. The first vote a player places in a game is powerful, so I'll give a gentle push first to see who needs the vote to get them talking.

Because you're not making a claim play.

Like I would probably ban you from playing in a game I ran unless you apologized.

I'm sorry for what I did in that past game. Why does it make me a vote-target in this one?

[dolores]

IcyTea:
Okay, that crosses a line because it means emotionally vulnerable people can't actually get support because people think they are scum. Like I would probably ban you from playing in a game I ran unless you apologized.

That's been the state of the meta since well before IcyTea's play. I blame Flabort and Tiruin, but that's just because Flabort did the reverse and made an AtE as scum (cult) after I'd caught them as vig and I quit rather than bull through it because I wasn't sure if it was artificial or not. The more I've looked around, the more it seems to me it's always been like this. At least the way ICT phrased his, it seemed like he was getting mad about the fact that Webadict had been intentionally trolling as town (which he had), and that game was a fucking shitshow without it.
Why are you voting ICT?

I'm not sure I follow your logic. Do you mean a mechanical immunity, where kills don't work, or a social immunity, where kills are not attempted?

Mechanical, obviously. The social immunity to kills is to make it look like it's easy to lynch you, which is the opposite of looking 100% town. You can look 100% town and imply a mechanical immunity to kills, but to do that I'd need to look 100% town.
I mean, in this scenario, it's by D2. So that's pretty achievable.
IcyTea31: say you're a town player with some flavor of infect power. Under what circumstances would you not claim D1?
Persus13: you've voted someone who you've not asked any questions to, and who has asked you unanswered relevant questions. Any plans on reeling this in or coming out of this without hostile D1 attention?

[IcyTea31]

You can look 100% town and imply a mechanical immunity to kills, but to do that I'd need to look 100% town.

It's a dangerous assumption to make that obvtown has a trick up their sleeve to protect them (and thus that you shouldn't do anything about them). Of course, in this game everyone has a trick up their sleeve.

Another thing: "100% gut read" is an oxymoron. The D2 situation you originally suggested is impossible to reach. By necessary logic, by the time I have that scumspect, I can no longer trust my gut.

say you're a town player with some flavor of infect power. Under what circumstances would you not claim D1?

You are interested in my role and what I might do with it.

[Naturegirl1999]

Naturegirl1999:
I haven't read my role PM yet. Why do you think that is?

I’m not sure. I would think it would be beneficial to know what you are. Why would it help you to not know your win condition or abilities or lack thereof?

[dolores]

Why would it help you to not know your win condition or abilities or lack thereof?

There's at least one easy answer to this. Why don't you speculate on it a little so we've got something to show for how you're thinking?
Where are your RVS questions, Naturegirl1999?

[TricMagic]

To note, I kinda wonder how superdorf got that info.

Note my Role is completely useless this game. Feel free to target me all you like.

Yay

TricMagic: How has your scum-play differentiated from your town-play in past games?

Typically, it hasn't. Though last game I ended up being busier in RL than not, so I was mostly silent.

Naturegirl: Hit me with a question.

[dolores]

Naturegirl: Hit me with a question.

How about you ask some of your own TricMagic? Everyone here (except for NG, who theoretically will be doing so next time they post) has been able to do so. There's nothing you want to know about the game state?

To note, I kinda wonder how superdorf got that info.

huh
(that's not a line of inquiry I'll let you waste time going down, but here's an even better point why are you voicing interests that you aren't doing anything to follow up on)
You don't know anyone's role or alignment, right? What's your plan for landing lynches? Or are you going to be one of those lazy players who leans on their role and does no daywork and loses the game?

Note my Role is completely useless this game.

huh

Feel free to target me all you like

This is at best WIFOM, and easily the kind of thing I'd expect from scum!tric. What, scum!tric does 0 levels of abstraction straightline plays without any sophistication? Yeah, he does. It's such a shock that it's almost hard to believe, but it happens.
Well, you told me to feel free to target you. You're targeted, TricMagic
(Yes, this is unfair on Shadowclaw. He can blame it on Tric. Whatever)

say you're a town player with some flavor of infect power. Under what circumstances would you not claim D1?

You are interested in my role and what I might do with it.

Is that a response or an accusation?
I'm interested in the infect power because (assuming I'm unlynchable and control the lynch, both of which are basically true by default) it's the only thing which could stop me from winning if I can gut read a 2/7 scumteam.
I'm interested in your alignment, specifically, because you're by far the best scum player here and I strongly suspect you could make it to N2 as scum, a prospect I am distinctly uncomfortable with.
Where are my RVS questions? You know I've got the ability to field them. I don't want to enter N1 without knowing your alignment. Why do you seem content to do the reverse?