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[IcyTea31]

I haven’t check how you effectively scum hunt, you always try to rely on a Town Sheriff or whatever but my experience without powers is certainly lacking. I don’t know exactly how you can get a reliable day one scum lynch

But there isn't a town sheriff here now, is there? Why haven't you tried to learn?

My main thing I’m trying to say is you were the only one being aggressive towards Tric, how would you possibility know that he is scum?

I didn't. Did you even read my arguments against him?

You probably are being apart of the scum team and know that I’m an easy picking because I make “shitty arguments” so your trying to encourage the others to vote me in.

Where's your precious "evidence" of this? You're voting for what would normally be a valid scumhunt-based reason, but you've specifically noted you have no idea how to do that. I find it hard to believe you could actually be the "noobtown" we'd normally give some leeway to when you're suddenly making sense.

[IcyTea31]

Anyways we probably have 2 or 3 Scum players out of the 7 (I don’t think 4 Scum out of 9, seems exactly fair...) and this is the most critical moment in this game since once we reach the point that their are equal or more scum players, than they can tie-lock and kill each night. So if their is three scum players, if the lynch comes out to town, unless their is another vigilante to even the odds the scum practically win, unless their is 2 of them.

Actually, if scum have the second prime/ignite and you hit town with your prime, it's already MILO since scum can double-kill the next night.

Going to unvote just to avoid a quickhammer if I'm wrong about you being scum, Shadowclaw. Because maybe you really just are an idiot.

[Deus Asmoth]

It would have literally no effect on my decision.

That's a lie you tell to yourself. All of us are vulnerable to the sunk cost fallacy, and knowing that town has to put in more work to win, town is also less likely to throw all that work away than scum. That work is what I mean when I say someone is invested in the game.

This is a completely ridiculous claim. Yes, the town needs to do more work than the scum to win. That doesn't mean that a player who's invested enough to make a post after requesting a replacement is town.

I'd classify it as a poor meta read. I'd also classify your assessment of her argument as wrong, since she hasn't responded to my points about my meta game at all as far as I can tell, nor has she made any real response to my thoughts on mafia theory.

You're moving away from her RVS question, which was your original point and the point I was responding to.

It certainly didn't look like you were asking about her original question, since my references to my metagame and thoughts on mafia theory came up after that, and that's what you mentioned in your question to me.

Deus Asmoth: activity is the best measure of townyness. You've a history of relative inactivity as scum. How will you convince me you're town in this game?

How is this question and the arguments following from it not provocatively directed at your past performance and arguments?

I mean, what's supposed to be provocative about it? It's a bad faith argument, sure. I already asked dolores about that. I personally wouldn't call it a personal attack, but if you would then I don't see much point in arguing about it.

[Deus Asmoth]

ICT: As a matter of fact, given that you claim that dolores has been displaying effective scumhunting, what's your opinion on her switching her vote from FOU (a person it actually looked like she was building a case on) to TricMagic (for a policy lynch) with two hours left in the day, tying the vote in the process?

Shadow:

Shadowclaw777.

See above post. Realized I should include their name in the formatting.

Pretty foolish on that train of thought, I didn’t pursue the train of thought simple because I doubt it would come up with attention from the others and we had like a day left to pursue that agenda, and I doubt it would come up with attention, I’m simply trying to ascertain who’s doing what is suspicious, and after recollecting you’re previous posts especially on TricMagic, I felt like he was certainly town, you said even if he was town you should still vote him off just because he would be a bad player because of his lack of activity. This is clearly an anti-town move, and my rationale is probably that the ones voted that user off have the potential to have collaborated with you, I don’t know if their is a mafia sub-chat even more so it’s time to reveal my role. You know those questions I’m been asking before?, that role is a Town Vigilante well rather a Town Arsonist, and the one I primed is based on random chance. Anyways if anyone has been most suspect has probably been you and the highest probability for being scum. You have done too many seeming anti-town moves that have created too much suspicion. Maybe defer what your role is too town, to make people trust you. Or do you really have such a powerful role that it needs to hidden?

As for the FallacyOfUrist thing their were people already voting for him; and with his fascination with catgirls I had really nothing to go on, and the logic bringing him up to lynch was somewhat hail marry.

Currently my logic goes to voting IceyTea31

Can you explain this logic? What anti-town moves have you been seeing from ICT?

[Shadowclaw777]

What has already been claimed already, not looking at your PM as the first thing you do, saying that no townie is bad than a bad townie player. If you think I have a more a thorough thinking on who is scum, yeah I got no clue

You can say I’m a bad player and need mentoring or whatever I really don’t since you know I’ve have played Town of Salem for years and got bored of it (while it has some similarities that can apply, the main thing you have to rely on is arguments instead of relying on the roles), maybe I’m trying to feign ignorance to not rise suspicion or just a really bad town player?, All I have is that I can ignite two random people that I primed from the previous night and get two random kills, which might be necessary if the lynched target is town >.>, than again I believe killing gets priority igniting so *shrugs* (Since it’s possible their would be (3 Scum/3 Town) after the lynch.

[Persus13]

Apparently what I said about Christmas Eve and Christmas Eve Eve also extended to Christmas Eve Eve.

I'm kindof interested in why Naturegirl hasn't shown up yet today, although to be fair, I'm one to talk.

What's your current case on ICT right now, Shadowclaw? I tried reading your post, but I'm pretty tired and couldn't wrap my head around it.

[FallacyofUrist]

All I have is that I can ignite two random people that I primed from the previous night and get two random kills, which might be necessary if the lynched target is town >.>, than again I believe killing gets priority igniting so *shrugs* (Since it’s possible their would be (3 Scum/3 Town) after the lynch.

I would, and I imagine the rest of the town would as well, appreciate a further explanation of this.
~~~
I fully intend to fabricate a longer case on IcyTea tomorrow. For the moment I'll unvote IcyTea for the sake of avoiding a hammer in the meantime.

I have a few ideas about things I've noticed that I need to string together.

[IcyTea31]

This is a completely ridiculous claim. Yes, the town needs to do more work than the scum to win. That doesn't mean that a player who's invested enough to make a post after requesting a replacement is town.

So you're saying that scum!dolores would care enough about me disagreeing with her townread on Superdorf to do something she believed was breaking the rules? For town!dolores that read would be the result of a lot of work, while for scum!dolores it would be a throwaway fabrication that she wouldn't actually care about. Town players care about the daygame. That's the whole point that is common wisdom for scumhunting.

ICT: As a matter of fact, given that you claim that dolores has been displaying effective scumhunting, what's your opinion on her switching her vote from FOU (a person it actually looked like she was building a case on) to TricMagic (for a policy lynch) with two hours left in the day, tying the vote in the process?

I'm not dolores. If I was, I'd probably give her usual spiel of building cases on people she doesn't want lynched yet, just in case she will want in the future. She had built a case on TricMagic beforehand, but I can't be sure why she chose TricMagic in the end over FoU. Could be she had a hunch about FoU possibly being town after I mentioned it?

If you think I have a more a thorough thinking on who is scum, yeah I got no clue

--

I really don’t [need mentoring] since you know I’ve have played Town of Salem for years

If you don't need mentoring, why don't you have a clue who's scum?

I can ignite two random people that I primed

!!!!
If scum have the other prime/ignite, it's LYLO. On freaking D2.

* IcyTea31 strikes his head against the desk

[Deus Asmoth]

IcyTea

This is a completely ridiculous claim. Yes, the town needs to do more work than the scum to win. That doesn't mean that a player who's invested enough to make a post after requesting a replacement is town.

So you're saying that scum!dolores would care enough about me disagreeing with her townread on Superdorf to do something she believed was breaking the rules?

As you say later, you're not dolores, so why are you putting words in her mouth? She never said that it was against the rules to post here after requesting a replacement. And in spite of your attempts to claim credit for baiting her into posting, most of that post wasn't directed at you at all. The fact that you're presenting it as such- and that dolores was more than willing to allow you to do so- is probably the scummiest thing in this game as of yet.

ICT: As a matter of fact, given that you claim that dolores has been displaying effective scumhunting, what's your opinion on her switching her vote from FOU (a person it actually looked like she was building a case on) to TricMagic (for a policy lynch) with two hours left in the day, tying the vote in the process?

I'm not dolores. If I was, I'd probably give her usual spiel of building cases on people she doesn't want lynched yet, just in case she will want in the future. She had built a case on TricMagic beforehand, but I can't be sure why she chose TricMagic in the end over FoU. Could be she had a hunch about FoU possibly being town after I mentioned it?

I'm not asking you to theorise on why she did it, I'm asking you to explain how you marry your claim that she's scumhunting effectively when her last contribution to the game was abandoning the case she had been pursuing to tie the vie over a policy lynch.

[IcyTea31]

Putting words in her mouth? Well, let's have her speak, then:

Rule-breaking by posting after requesting a replacement:

Most places don't allow it, actually, but what are you gonna do, ban me? I don't give a fuck.
--
Also I shouldn't be posting in the thread since I'm not playing, so you're addresing questions to someone outside of the thread who can't reply within it.

Coming back due to my intentionally provocative post:

I don't like the change in content with my going out (and use of that fact is another reason it's verbotten to post after going out, this is literally cheating), especially since it's a change in content away from what I'm looking for and I won't be able to follow up on that (and his anticipated subsequent flip-flop after this post) in my abscence.

I realize that I'm the one saying this, but [IcyTea31's] play to produce the townread on me was the most brilliant shit I've ever fucking seen.

Effective scumhunting (didn't think this was arguable):

Persus13: you've voted someone who you've not asked any questions to, and who has asked you unanswered relevant questions. Any plans on reeling this in or coming out of this without hostile D1 attention?

Where are your RVS questions, Naturegirl1999?

Well, you told me to feel free to target you. You're targeted, TricMagic

Shadowclaw777: some players have made sufficently substantial posts to give an impression in this game. Developed any initial reads yet?

If you're going to call me and dolores scumbuddies, you should do so openly rather than just implying it. Am I buddies with dolores, Deus Asmoth? If that's the case, why would scum!dolores tie the vote in favour of FoU instead of lynching a strong town player, unless FoU was scum as well? Are there 3 scum?

[IcyTea31]

I notice I'm at L-2, and haven't been quickhammered yet. This implies one of three scenarios:

• I'm scum.
• Scum is already voting for me.
• Scum don't believe it's LYLO.

Persus13: Earlier you said that a town vig is a powerful tool in the right hands. Is Shadowclaw a bad town vig or scum trying to hide behind idiocy? Is there a valid reason a town vig would ever use a random-target kill, outside of something like being outnumbered by scum already? (This keeping in mind that in this game, random-target abilities can also hit the user.)

[IcyTea31]

I realize Persus13 said he can't play today, but that's there to wait for him.

Naturegirl1999: Who do you think is scum, after what happened in the night? You haven't made a D2 post yet.

FallacyofUrist: Waiting for promised content. I still don't understand what your case on me is, beyond gut.

[Naturegirl1999]

Naturegirl1999: Who do you think is scum, after what happened in the night? You haven't made a D2 post yet.

I’m thinking Shadowclaw777 because you’ve been asking many questions and answering others’ questions which makes me think you are town. Shadowclaww777 is voting for you. I haven’t seen anti town behavior from you. Shadowclaw doesn’t seem to provide reasons for voting you

[Shadowclaw777]

--

I really don’t [need mentoring] since you know I’ve have played Town of Salem for years

If you don't need mentoring, why don't you have a clue who's scum?

I can ignite two random people that I primed

!!!!
If scum have the other prime/ignite, it's LYLO. On freaking D2.

* IcyTea31 strikes his head against the desk

[/quote]

Explain to me if we lynch town today how it’s not a LYLO situation if their is three scum?, how the hell are you suppose to use a Town Arsonist effectively?, even more so since it provides random targets, most games last to day 3 it seems so I doubt not priming Day 1 would of done anything good. Yeah maybe I could of made mafia suspicious by saying I was a town vigilante day 1 and take the hit so superdwarf can get their ability to be used a second time. Let’s say the target we get lynched is town, and have three mafia, should I not ignite two random targets even if we’re in a LYLO or worse situation?

Also about the thing about player skill, I highly doubt that I’m lacking it just usually having my judgment being necessitated by town roles and death notes that don’t exist in this format. Their has to be a minimum of two scum, so everyone evading suspicion kinda just of confuses thing up. Like for Naturegirl1999 I doubt she has has high player skill and picking up on who’s suspicious, since the lack of content in her posts primarily. Like I know I’m town, but at least I’m not trying to lead the conversation, either your trying to bamboozle town in getting a lynch that isn’t scum or making a desperado attempt to hope we get a lynch on the correct scum so that mafia has a chance. Someone needs to take the noose this day even if it’s town, or we pretty much lose

[IcyTea31]

I understand your logic, but having two random players (who each have a 6/8 or 5/8 chance of being town) primed and known as such is a massive liability for the sake of a backup plan that hinges on your own inability to lynch scum without a cop telling you who it is.

That you don't understand how the daygame works is not an excuse to reduce the chances of those who do by turning the game into a worse gamble; I would like to believe that I have a better than 3/8 chance of hitting scum with a lynch. (Generously assuming 3 scum, which would be bloody stupid in a 9-player game anyway.) Did you know that random-target abilities can self-target in this setup? You can't even play a gambit where you prime everyone else and burn everyone to win.

You're either a massive pile of the Dunning-Kruger effect or the most brilliant scum ever in making me believe you actually think you're playing well. I'm inclined to choose the former, which would turn my attention to the next scummiest on my readlist: Deus Asmoth.

DA: would you consider the current gamestate to be a possible LYLO, keeping in mind the two claimed random primes?

Since I haven't been quickhammered and because of my scenario No. 2 above, FallacyofUrist is also suspicious to me at the moment due to his earlier vote.