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[gchristopher]

I think children should not be eligible for Strange Moods. Aside from the gameplay implications of them always being craftsdwarf moods, it is a less compelling story than having a Strange Mood be something that a dwarf grows into as they mature and start to form a connection with a moodable profession. For a child, that part of their life story isn't present yet, and it seems wrong that their potential to grow their personal story in different ways is limited, mostly because they have the bad luck to be in a player fortress where child moods are much more common than if they lived anywhere else.

There's a lot of different ways you could go about changing this, from simply requiring adulthood, to concepts like events in a dwarf's life "priming" them for a mood. That could be things like forming a strong emotional bond to a diety, other dwarf, pet, or abstract ideal that inspires them to create some tribute. Or maybe the individual trauma and losses of a dwarf could take root in their mind and similarly be expressed as a mood. It would be interesting if the cumulative life experiences of a dwarf built up some kind of psychic pressure, and could be the basis of other exceptional events besides strange moods.

Regardless, please stop children from having moods.

Poll added for people that like to disagree, while making typing an actual disagreement optional.

[voliol]

+1 I agree that children should not normally make artifacts. Moods are fun (not !fun!), but too many of them end up in the hands of children, that end up producing artifact crafts. Even if you care for artifact crafts, having so many of them made by children instead of your trained craftsdwarves is pretty dull. It also stunts the child’s future artifact potential.

There should be exception though, allowing child-moods while making them unique and dramatic.
Maybe the fell and macabre moods shouldn’t be off-limits for very sad children? Artifacts will be re-worked during Myths & Magic update, so the system used needs to be simple simple to implement or it won’t be.

[Pillbo]

I like children having moods, but I would say it's too frequent which makes it non-special.  It should definitely be weighted against children having moods, I'd much rather 10% of my artifacts coming from kids than >50%.

Kids moods have some benefits, it can be thought of as a stand in for tropes of savants or child prodigies. Though to serve that purpose meaningfully would probably need some work, perhaps some children could show a great interest in a craft early in childhood which makes them open to a mood as they age.  There's also the Possessed By Unknown Forces mood, which I guess is open to interpretation, but I've taken that literally.  So if demons/gods/magicians/spirits/ghosts are actually taking over a dwarf to use them as a tool to create their masterwork, then I see no reason that a child couldn't be that vessel.

Now that I said it, if ghosts of dead dwarves aren't planned to possess others to make the artifact they weren't able to in life, that would be an awesome addition.  "The dwarven child is possessed by the spirit of ghostly armorsmith Urist to complete his life's work!"

[Silverwing235]

+1 Artifacts will be re-worked during Myths & Magic update, so the system used needs to be simple simple to implement or it won’t be.

*snip superfluous text* Pardon me, seems to have been a rather considerable 'posting without thinking' accident in the bolded second half.

[feelotraveller]

No children shouldn't mood, at least the way the system stands now.  The major problem is that after a certain point in any long term fort only children are available for moods and the only unskilled moods available are craftsdwarf ones.  So every strange mood becomes a craftsdwarf child strange mood, that is barring an untoward event reducing the fort below its population cap again.

My preference for gating moods would be to add a minimum skill level as a mood requirement, representing the basics of the craft needed before any inspirational work can happen.  This could be set as low as merely being more skilled than dabbling.  Currently that would prevent children from mooding but it would also allow for a limited reintroduction of child moods down the track if an apprenticeship system ever comes to pass, since then child-apprentices could potentinally attain the needed novice or above skill requirement to mood in their apprenticed profession.

[FantasticDorf]

I believe that children having moods should stay in, but it should be limited to toys, clothes and knick-knacks rather than anything serious like a broadsword or piece of armor and chances cut down by about a quarter less for it to happen.

Its a nice memory for a dwarf to fall back on as to saying they had a exceptional childhood, and if it makes the dwarf more productive and happier in life from the ample time to reflect on the experience it sounds very much worthwhile. Takes your mind off being thrown in a dog-pit to train dodging.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I think like most lore related things, it should be one of the many factors considered during Mythgen and therefore be something which happens in some worlds and not part of others.

[Nordlicht]

I think so too. In some worlds it may even be possible to have a strange mood only up to a certain age. So you may hope a dwarf has a strange mood before his 15. birthday.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I think so too. In some worlds it may even be possible to have a strange mood only up to a certain age. So you may hope a dwarf has a strange mood before his 15. birthday.

Coming of age ritual. No Mood and you spend your life as an outcast, forever referred to as a child. 

[gchristopher]

Intentional bump. Trying the game again and children having craftsdwarf strange moods is the primary event that will make me kill a running game and savescum. It just ruins the potential story of that dwarf's life to have an idiotic random event happen and lock them into forever being the maker of a random bracelet, especially for dwarves that actually have preferences to non-craftsdwarf items.

Why craftsdwarf? The kid has no connection to that, or any profession. Why a child, when the kid has no chance to develop skills or interests that would connect them to whatever they build?

Moods should be changed to require at least some levels in the associated skill, so there's some kind of storyline around the strange mood.

It's worse because this is one of the few things a player can't do anything about. Strange moods really need some prerequisites.

[A_Curious_Cat]

With the changes that came with the introduction (reintroduction?) of guilds, it has been reported that it is now possible for children to have non-crafting moods.

My opinion is that a good start would be to require dwarves (including children) to have a minimum amount of skill in something before they can mood in it.  Secondly, I would remove the code that defaults to a crafting mood if a dwarf moods without any skills (if a dwarf has no skill, that dwarf simply should not mood).  This would allow children to mood only if they gain sufficient skill through some means (currently, this would involve watching skill demonstrations at a guildhall).

On an additional note:

I see no reason why a “possessed” mood should be considered to be a proper mood for the person possessed.  I think that, if a dwarf gets possessed, the possession should not count toward the lifetime limit of only one mood/artifact.  The dwarf should still be able to go on to have a mood and artifact of their own.  Likewise, I don’t think that having already had a mood should prevent a dwarf from being possessed.  Also, if we are working on the assumption that a possessed dwarf is being possessed by another deceased dwarf and it is the deceased dwarf that is really mooding, I believe that the deceased dwarf should only cause a possession mood if they never molded during life and that they should be limited to only one possession during their afterlife.

[Mobbstar]

Since this thread has been pulled up from the sewers, I may as well add my two cents.

No children shouldn't mood, at least the way the system stands now.  The major problem is that after a certain point in any long term fort only children are available for moods and the only unskilled moods available are craftsdwarf ones.  So every strange mood becomes a craftsdwarf child strange mood, that is barring an untoward event reducing the fort below its population cap again.

My preference for gating moods would be to add a minimum skill level as a mood requirement, representing the basics of the craft needed before any inspirational work can happen.  This could be set as low as merely being more skilled than dabbling.  Currently that would prevent children from mooding but it would also allow for a limited reintroduction of child moods down the track if an apprenticeship system ever comes to pass, since then child-apprentices could potentinally attain the needed novice or above skill requirement to mood in their apprenticed profession.

With the changes that came with the introduction (reintroduction?) of guilds, it has been reported that it is now possible for children to have non-crafting moods.

My opinion is that a good start would be to require dwarves (including children) to have a minimum amount of skill in something before they can mood in it.  Secondly, I would remove the code that defaults to a crafting mood if a dwarf moods without any skills (if a dwarf has no skill, that dwarf simply should not mood).  This would allow children to mood only if they gain sufficient skill through some means (currently, this would involve watching skill demonstrations at a guildhall).

I like this idea the most and would like to see it deliberately expanded upon by Toady.  Encourage children to occasionally pay attention in guild halls of skills they are naturally inclined to, while ignoring the rest.  For example, a prowess-admirer listens to weapon- and armoursmithing demonstrations in the smith guildhall, but a pacifist child with hatch cover preference eavesdrops only on blacksmithing in the same guild, and also goes to the mason and carpenter guilds.

Besides preserving each childs individuality, this would also paint the fortress as a whole in unique flair, because the child geniuses are a consequence of legendary apprenticeship or fortress-wide enthusiasm.  For example, the afforementioned hatch nerd would likely end up as a mason in expansive stone forts, but as a blacksmith instead in wealthy or war-oriented forts, or as a carpenter in Santa's Toy And Spiked Ball Factory.  Conversely, the afforementioned prowess-admirer would remain a peasant if the fortress' only weaponsmith doesn't go out of their way to showcase their craft in guildhalls, or seek an apprentice.