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[Shonai_Dweller]

I think, STRANGE_MOODS may be added to other creatures who make that things in myths, like cyclops and trolls. This also need to solve bug, when megabeast or pet not make artifacts in worldgen.

The problem is those creatures do not present have an entity from which to decide which items to make.   

Do they need their entity to tell them what items to make? I know that dwarves can make artifacts of types they can't make normal items, but I don't know if they're weighted towards things they can already make.

They need access to materials. Which non-entity members don't have (which is why elven dance troupes are all naked usually. Their starting clothes literally rotted off their bodies and they had no replacements).
Trolls have an entity (usually). Cyclops don't.

Question is will histfig trolls produce artifacts (with no additional raw changes other than strange_moods). Fortress mode allows it. But worldgen would need testing with hundreds of worlds to check (due to very low number of troll histfigs). I'd assume it just doesn't work.

[pikachu17]

I think, STRANGE_MOODS may be added to other creatures who make that things in myths, like cyclops and trolls. This also need to solve bug, when megabeast or pet not make artifacts in worldgen.

The problem is those creatures do not present have an entity from which to decide which items to make.   

Do they need their entity to tell them what items to make? I know that dwarves can make artifacts of types they can't make normal items, but I don't know if they're weighted towards things they can already make.

Trolls are part of goblins entity, so they will make items of goblin civ. When cyclops may be modded to lead some civs by POWER token, as example, or be heroes like animal people.

uh... Strange moods can make items not of that civ. Its the only way to get angel items not of angel material.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I think, STRANGE_MOODS may be added to other creatures who make that things in myths, like cyclops and trolls. This also need to solve bug, when megabeast or pet not make artifacts in worldgen.

The problem is those creatures do not present have an entity from which to decide which items to make.   

Do they need their entity to tell them what items to make? I know that dwarves can make artifacts of types they can't make normal items, but I don't know if they're weighted towards things they can already make.

Trolls are part of goblins entity, so they will make items of goblin civ. When cyclops may be modded to lead some civs by POWER token, as example, or be heroes like animal people.

uh... Strange moods can make items not of that civ. Its the only way to get angel items not of angel material.

That's not a good example. Elven merchants turn up with instruments of angel material. It's not meant to happen, indicating that there's a material leakage bug going on somewhere.

(Incidentally in my current world I have 616 artifacts and not one made of Angel material. Are you sure they're being made? Not books obviously, they're bugged with all sorts of random materials).

--
Just for an idea of numbers, in my current world of 167341 historical figures (that's not total population, just the histfigs) there are just 17 trolls. That's out of a total troll population of 44637 (site population) and 322396 (underground population). Not sure of the difference between those two numbers. Goblin pets Vs Wild trolls I guess.

None of the 17 appear to be goblin pets. So I think goblin pets just don't get raised to historical figure status until they attack a player site and get some kills. But in the current version artifacts don't get produced in the world after initial worldgen, so it doesn't seem like it would be possible.

[pikachu17]

I think, STRANGE_MOODS may be added to other creatures who make that things in myths, like cyclops and trolls. This also need to solve bug, when megabeast or pet not make artifacts in worldgen.

The problem is those creatures do not present have an entity from which to decide which items to make.   

Do they need their entity to tell them what items to make? I know that dwarves can make artifacts of types they can't make normal items, but I don't know if they're weighted towards things they can already make.

Trolls are part of goblins entity, so they will make items of goblin civ. When cyclops may be modded to lead some civs by POWER token, as example, or be heroes like animal people.

uh... Strange moods can make items not of that civ. Its the only way to get angel items not of angel material.

That's not a good example. Elven merchants turn up with instruments of angel material. It's not meant to happen, indicating that there's a material leakage bug going on somewhere.

(Incidentally in my current world I have 616 artifacts and not one made of Angel material. Are you sure they're being made? Not books obviously, they're bugged with all sorts of random materials).

I didn't say artifacts were being made of angel material. I was saying that angel items, like tall boots and the like, can be made in strange moods, even though they would not be normally made in dwarven civilization.

[Pillbo]

I think it would be really interesting if non-entity intelligent creatures like minotaurs, giants and cyclops (trolls too, why not?) created artifacts, even if just in world gen.

It would be cooler if they had creature specific creation rules, so you don't get pointless things like a Quern.  Not sure exactly what could be specific to those creatures. Maybe only items they could equip or wield, or artworks that it's believable they could enjoy? Maybe even dragons could make things if you take magic into account, smelting an object with dragon fire or some such thing. I wouldn't be surprised if things like this are planned.

Do things like minotaurs, giants and cyclops have religions of any kind or is that an entity thing? Ancient artifact religious artworks from intelligent monsters would be cool to find.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I think it would be really interesting if non-entity intelligent creatures like minotaurs, giants and cyclops (trolls too, why not?) created artifacts, even if just in world gen.

It would be cooler if they had creature specific creation rules, so you don't get pointless things like a Quern.  Not sure exactly what could be specific to those creatures. Maybe only items they could equip or wield, or artworks that it's believable they could enjoy? Maybe even dragons could make things if you take magic into account, smelting an object with dragon fire or some such thing. I wouldn't be surprised if things like this are planned.

Do things like minotaurs, giants and cyclops have religions of any kind or is that an entity thing? Ancient artifact religious artworks from intelligent monsters would be cool to find.

Yes, that would be cool. Right now they don't have entities at all, so no access to materials or workshops. So they make nothing. Would be good to see this expanded. Plus artifacts, sure.

But then you get into lore. Dwarves have a religious experience that enhances their dorfy crafting ability. Dorf is born to craft. Should that be the same for all races? Shouldn't there be some kind of differentiation between the civs? Elves aren't dwarves-in-trees after all.

[Pillbo]

But then you get into lore. Dwarves have a religious experience that enhances their dorfy crafting ability. Dorf is born to craft. Should that be the same for all races? Shouldn't there be some kind of differentiation between the civs? Elves aren't dwarves-in-trees after all.

Yeah I'm all about their being racial differences, moods and crafting could remain a dwarven activity. This could be a reason to expand Artifacts concept, as in unique named items that hold social, magical, or economic power to the creator and/or their civ.  Not unlike slabs and books.

There could be other reasons that or ways that artifacts could be created by other creatures. Maybe elven artifacts could come from the result of a druidic ritual, unique items of power grown from trees. Maybe giants could create a mud statue to their associated sphere of death or suicide in world gen (I mentioned making it WG only in my post because they don't have access to workshops and I'm ok with details like that being skipped in WG). Maybe a cyclops is an avatar of the gods of Misery and they gift her an artifact club for which to inflict pain on her foes. Maybe in a time-before-time a magical creature like a dragon could use it's fire breath to smelt an artifact from the essence of the universe, which is of such unimaginable value that the dragon will greedily defend the item with her life for the rest of time. Maybe necromancers could make magical wizard staffs from bones of the dead similar to fell moods, or human leather cloaks or codices.

There are lots of intelligent creatures, civs, and religions. I'm just saying there could be lots of ways of creating artifacts unique to each one. And it needn't take away from what makes a dorf a drof

[Shonai_Dweller]

Yes, that's all good stuff. The artifact arc already added artifacts for other (civilized) races. Named weapons, religious tokens, etc. Magical ability wasn't added this time as I guess it'd be a thing for Mythgen.

Artifact gifts from the gods or just things made by gods should also be a thing. Mythgen already mentions some god-made devices.