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[Logariter]

You are Welcome.

[brolol.404]

another screenshot of the plants.

This is the swamp/marsh biome:

Trees:
> pennywort
> bahia grass
> crab grass
> scutch grass
> hogweed
> chickweed

Grass:
> peat moss
> algae
> bark
> twig
> peat
> humus
> silt



EDIT: I also plan to add weaver ants with milkable silk (or a reaction to convert larva/eggs into silk)

And in addition to aphids, I am going to add mealybugs, armored scale bugs, soft scale bugs, whiteflys and wooly aphids that can also be milked for honeydew.

[Lurksquatch]

Is it wierd that I'm more excited about this mod than I am about my own projects?

Have you considered the Giant Weta? It's basically a giant carnivorous cricket. There are also non-giant wetas, but they're not as interesting lol.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_weta

Another thought: what about having larger prehistoric bugs in Savage biomes? Griffinflies, giant millipedes, etc. It might break the realism a bit, but it's not like they didn't use to exist, and it would be a cool way to keep Savage biomes, well, Savage.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prehistoric_insects

Keep on keeping on. Looking forward to the full release.

[Logariter]

Another thought: what about having larger prehistoric bugs in Savage biomes? Griffinflies, giant millipedes, etc. It might break the realism a bit, but it's not like they didn't use to exist, and it would be a cool way to keep Savage biomes, well, Savage.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prehistoric_insects

Wouldn't those carboniferous arthropods be more like megabeasts in size, than savage creatures?

[Meph]

The weta would do well for caves. As would giant cave centipedes, which look amazing in their own right.

Any carnivorous plants planned? Those are a danger to insects.

[Lurksquatch]

Another thought: what about having larger prehistoric bugs in Savage biomes? Griffinflies, giant millipedes, etc. It might break the realism a bit, but it's not like they didn't use to exist, and it would be a cool way to keep Savage biomes, well, Savage.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prehistoric_insects

Wouldn't those carboniferous arthropods be more like megabeasts in size, than savage creatures?

You're not wrong, but let's examine it for a second.

According to Wikipedia, black ants (our main playable race) are about 5mm long. Queens and soldiers are bigger, drones are smaller, but the workers are about 5mm, so lets use that for right now.

Arthropleura armata (Which I would just call a giant millipede to avoid using scientific names) was around 2.5 meters, or 2,500mm. Since brolol.404 stated earlier on that black ants have a size of 100,000 in game (unless I misread), we can use a simple ratio to find that (100,000*2,500)/5=50,000,000, or about 25% larger than a giant elephant. A. armata was an herbivore, so it would basically be analogous to a particularly large giant elephant, peacefully meandering through the map, largely ignoring our ants unless provoked. 

We can use the same process to find the size of a griffinfly. Griffinflies had a wingspan of around 70cm, or 700mm. (100,000*700)/5=14,000,000, or quite a bit smaller than a dragon. They would be horrific predators, but also quite rare.

Most prehistoric insects weren't all that big. Ororaphidia, an extinct genus of snakefly, was only 12mm long, or about 240,000 in game. Afropone, an extinct genus of ant, was of a similar size. I'm sure there are plenty of extinct bugs that were quite a bit larger, but most seem to be around the size of what we call a really big bug today, not the horrific giants you usually see on TV. You could just give them a more generic name and treat the like regular giant animals.

Also, yes, I know using a simple ratio might not be the most accurate way to calculate the size of living organisms, but vanilla DF already kicks physics in the head when it comes to animal sizes anyway, so who cares? R.I.P, square-cube law lol.

[brolol.404]

Is it wierd that I'm more excited about this mod than I am about my own projects?

I may be able to release a beta version soon if that is something you guys would be interested in. It is technically playable now, I just have about 125 more creatures to add.

Have you considered the Giant Weta? It's basically a giant carnivorous cricket. There are also non-giant wetas, but they're not as interesting lol.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giant_weta

I will add giant wetas and cave crickets to the caverns

Giant wetas are actually pretty big, but they will make a good addition to the lower caverns.

Another thought: what about having larger prehistoric bugs in Savage biomes? Griffinflies, giant millipedes, etc. It might break the realism a bit, but it's not like they didn't use to exist, and it would be a cool way to keep Savage biomes, well, Savage.

Interesting idea. I will look into this and think about it. Currently the largest creature is the finch megabeast at 2 billion size units (the max DF size limit).

There are non extinct giant millipedes that I will add to the caverns though.

* 100 thousand is 1 mg and 2 billion is about 20 grams for the size conversion of this mod. I am not sure that I will add anything bigger than that. *

Currently the good biomes have monarch butterflies, luna moths and silk worms and the evil biomes have phorid flies (parasitoids) and probably some other nasty parasitic worms that take over the host. I still havent decided on the savage biomes yet.

Any carnivorous plants planned? Those are a danger to insects.

This is a really cool idea, but I'm not sure it will work in practice.

Without dfhack, the "plants" would be animals that spawn on the edge of the map. They would either remain there or they would walk around.

[voliol]

Also, yes, I know using a simple ratio might not be the most accurate way to calculate the size of living organisms, but vanilla DF already kicks physics in the head when it comes to animal sizes anyway, so who cares? R.I.P, square-cube law lol.

I think DF maps its creature sizes pretty well, respecting volume not being just height or length or whatever. Birds are the exception, most of them are way too small, presumably because their size was calculated using the assumption that 1g of weight corresponds to 1cm³ of volume. This works well with mammals, but birds are considerably lighter, and so we get eagles the size of a cat, described as ”small bird(s) of prey”.

Oh, and the humongous terrestial crabs.

Giant Wetas should be big enough to replace e.g. the cave dragons, if the cave dragons were herbivores.

[Lurksquatch]

Also, yes, I know using a simple ratio might not be the most accurate way to calculate the size of living organisms, but vanilla DF already kicks physics in the head when it comes to animal sizes anyway, so who cares? R.I.P, square-cube law lol.

I think DF maps its creature sizes pretty well, respecting volume not being just height or length or whatever. Birds are the exception, most of them are way too small, presumably because their size was calculated using the assumption that 1g of weight corresponds to 1cm³ of volume. This works well with mammals, but birds are considerably lighter, and so we get eagles the size of a cat, described as ”small bird(s) of prey”.

Oh, and the humongous terrestial crabs.

Giant Wetas should be big enough to replace e.g. the cave dragons, if the cave dragons were herbivores.

The size works well for the purposes of the game, but it's not always accurate to real life physics. When you increase the size of something, it's surface area increases by the square of the multiplying factor, and volume (what size represents in DF) increases by the cube of the multiplying factor. For example, giant elephants are eight times the size of regular elephants. In DF, that means 5,000,000*8=40,000,000. In real life, it would be more like 5,000,000*8^3=2,560,000,000. That being said, it was more of a joke comment than anything.

Currently the good biomes have monarch butterflies, luna moths and silk worms and the evil biomes have phorid flies (parasitoids) and probably some other nasty parasitic worms that take over the host. I still havent decided on the savage biomes yet.

Mentioning good/evil biomes got me thinking. If you added an orchid "tree" to good biomes, you could add orchid bees and orchid mantises as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euglossini
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hymenopus_coronatus

Both are beautiful insects, and while the bee probably wouldn't be to much of a threat, orchid mantises could give you plenty of reason to think twice about that "serene" embark.

For evil biomes, have you considered the assassin bug?
https://www.britannica.com/animal/assassin-bug

I was going to suggest Goliath Birdeaters, but they'd be like eight and a half times larger than a finch, so...

Also for evil biomes: hammerhead flatworms. Or maybe they live in Hell?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipalium

If you're still trying to figure out the hunting thing (needing a crossbow analog and ammo), some species of ants can shoot caustic chemicals at attackers. I don't think black ants do, but it'd be plausible at least. Give 'em some kind of blowgun type weapon and let them make ammo, maybe out of their own spit/secretion if you can. Maybe give it a syndrome?

Sorry if I'm spamming lol. This is just a fascinating mod to me, and the more I look at it, the more ideas it gives me.

[Logariter]

Currently the good biomes have monarch butterflies, luna moths and silk worms and the evil biomes have phorid flies (parasitoids) and probably some other nasty parasitic worms that take over the host. I still havent decided on the savage biomes yet.

How are the parasites going to work?

[brolol.404]

Mentioning good/evil biomes got me thinking. If you added an orchid "tree" to good biomes, you could add orchid bees and orchid mantises as well.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euglossini
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hymenopus_coronatus

Both are beautiful insects, and while the bee probably wouldn't be to much of a threat, orchid mantises could give you plenty of reason to think twice about that "serene" embark.

Orchid trees might be hard to construct, but I'll add orchid bees and orchid mantis to the good biomes.

For evil biomes, have you considered the assassin bug?
https://www.britannica.com/animal/assassin-bug

Also for evil biomes: hammerhead flatworms. Or maybe they live in Hell?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipalium

I was planning on adding assassin bugs, but I didn't think about only adding them to the evil biomes. I like that. I'll restrict them to evil areas.

I'll add hammerhead worms to the caverns.

If you're still trying to figure out the hunting thing (needing a crossbow analog and ammo), some species of ants can shoot caustic chemicals at attackers. I don't think black ants do, but it'd be plausible at least. Give 'em some kind of blowgun type weapon and let them make ammo, maybe out of their own spit/secretion if you can. Maybe give it a syndrome?

Interesting idea. I'll think about it. I may just disable automatic hunting. This mod is much deadlier than vanilla so unmonitored hunting is probably a death sentence anyway.

Sorry if I'm spamming lol. This is just a fascinating mod to me, and the more I look at it, the more ideas it gives me.

I appreciate any ideas keep them coming

How are the parasites going to work?

I havent decided exactly, but I think I will have a few variations in the mechanics. The parasitic creature will probably inject a contagious syndrome into the creature that happens in "stages". The short term would cause minor health issues, then after awhile the creature would display erratic behavior, personality changes and possible death/paralysis/impaired function/necrosis and late stage would be no thought, no emotion, no fear and possible crazed/opposed to life with eventual death or transformation into the parasitic creature.

[brolol.404]

The following megabeasts have been added:

canary
bat
finch
shrew
sparrow
wren

I also added the weaver ant and orchid bee to finish off the non playable ants and bees.

The black widow has been added, so now the rest of the spiders should be easy to get in.

[Lurksquatch]

Are you still planning on having playable spiders? Because it occurs to me that wolf spiders don't live in groups. However, some spiders do actually live in groups. Large groups. Like, 1000 strong groups.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_spider

I've been having a hard time finding much info on these guys, like their size, or even what they're called outside of scientific names, but I thought you might be interested. There's like 23 kinds of social spider, apparently, but if there's any more info on them, it lives outside of Wikipedia lol. I don't know how much it would mess with what you have already, but you said you wanted it to be realistic, so...
If nothing else, they might make a good goblin substitute, if you don't already have one. Or not.

Either way, keep up the good work!

[brolol.404]

Are you still planning on having playable spiders? Because it occurs to me that wolf spiders don't live in groups. However, some spiders do actually live in groups. Large groups. Like, 1000 strong groups.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_spider

I've been having a hard time finding much info on these guys, like their size, or even what they're called outside of scientific names, but I thought you might be interested. There's like 23 kinds of social spider, apparently, but if there's any more info on them, it lives outside of Wikipedia lol. I don't know how much it would mess with what you have already, but you said you wanted it to be realistic, so...
If nothing else, they might make a good goblin substitute, if you don't already have one. Or not.

Either way, keep up the good work!

This is an interesting point.

Although this mod will attempt to capture a realistic perspective of the bug kingdom, there will be some exceptions just for the "rule of cool". For example, in this mod, a black ant colony could capture a breeding pair of black widows and a breeding pair of hornets and make a black widow/hornet army. While not realistic, I think it would be pretty cool.

I do get your point on the spider colony though and I agree. I spent some time looking it up and it looks like harvestmen spiders live in large colonies. So, I will remove wolf spiders as a playable fort mode race and add harvestmen spiders as a civ (wolf spiders will still be creatures in the mod). Although they are much weaker that wolf spiders, they are omnivores that eat insects and fungi and will have webs.

[Enemy post]

I don't know if it matters to you, but harvestmen aren't actually spiders.