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Author Topic: DF Overhaul - Insects  (Read 17374 times)

brolol.404

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Re: DF Overhaul - Insects
« Reply #45 on: November 19, 2019, 01:26:05 pm »

I completely forgot the most evil of all insect-like beings.

Take your advanced worldgen, set demons to 0.

Create a new creature with DEPTH:5:5, which means they populate hell.

Then create... Solifugae. Aka camel spiders.

A cool invader civ or yet another megabeast could be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mantis ; while necromancers could be replaced with the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis a fungus that mind-controls ants. It would fit oh-so-perfectly for reanimated ant corpses.

Sorry if I'm making too many suggestions. ^^

I like all of the suggestions and ideas :) keep them coming

I was thinking of adding camel spiders to the desert or as a semi-megabeast, but adding them the the underworld would be cool. I will think on this. I guess I could add them to both. I could populate hell with copies of all of the creepiest creatures in the mod (camel spiders, centipedes, scorpions, earwigs, etc.)

I was planning on adding mantis as a normal creature, but I guess they would be strong enough to be semi-megabeasts. I'll have to figure out how many semi-megabeasts work well for the game. I dont think I will add them as a civ just because of how strong they would be.

I have plans to add the mind control worms as a curse. I may make it contagious like the werebeast curse instead of the necromancer spell though. Like the worms are reproducing and finding new hosts.

I got to say I love the idea of a rapidly changing population but with so many of them dying every couple of years wouldn't it create a spacing problem due to the extensive needs for burial grounds/slab gardens? Is there a way to prevent any spider-ghost from spawning that I am missing?

To be honest I have no idea how big of an issue slabs will be lol I doubt there is a way to remove ghosts without dfhack, but it might be possible. I will probably just have to do some extensive testing on the civ once the mod is done and make changes as necessary.

Enemy post

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Re: DF Overhaul - Insects
« Reply #46 on: November 19, 2019, 01:36:20 pm »

I was thinking about werebeasts in this mod. You can't stop the ones based on normal animals completely, at least without resorting to advanced worldgen, but you could mostly drown them out if you wanted to by making a bunch of werebugs yourself.

Meph's extracted werebeasts might help with that, if you want to do it.

*Oh, and I had an idea regarding mantises. Personally, I'd let them be regular, but dangerous, animals on the grounds that the player's military is very good at killing animals regardless of how big they are. However, these bugs I just found might allow for a compromise. The mantidflies are bugs that strongly resemble a small mantis. Sometimes they also mimic wasps.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 01:49:28 pm by Enemy post »
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brolol.404

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Re: DF Overhaul - Insects
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2019, 02:52:14 pm »

I was thinking about werebeasts in this mod. You can't stop the ones based on normal animals completely, at least without resorting to advanced worldgen, but you could mostly drown them out if you wanted to by making a bunch of werebugs yourself.

Meph's extracted werebeasts might help with that, if you want to do it.

*Oh, and I had an idea regarding mantises. Personally, I'd let them be regular, but dangerous, animals on the grounds that the player's military is very good at killing animals regardless of how big they are. However, these bugs I just found might allow for a compromise. The mantidflies are bugs that strongly resemble a small mantis. Sometimes they also mimic wasps.

Interesting. I'll take a look through that. Does each world only choose one type of werecurse including those modded in? I'm not sure how I want to handle werecreatures yet to be honest.

I'll add mantidflies. Were you thinking that these would just be another animal in the world, but weaker than the mantis?

Enemy post

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Re: DF Overhaul - Insects
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2019, 03:03:53 pm »

Each world chooses a certain number of werecurses to potentially exist, usually determined by world size. How many curses actually exist in the final product is determined by historical events, and is usually significantly lower.

I thought they'd just be an animal. From making Primal, I generally found that most animal predators follow the same general rule. Outside the extremes of weakness and strength, a concentrated attack will almost always kill civilians, but lose to actual soldiers. Generally, only overwhelming numbers or favorable circumstances for one side or another break that pattern. It's Dwarf Fortress though, so there's plenty of flukes in real combat.

I think the reason for this is that animals can't gain combat skills. As a result, even Novice Dodge and Block skills represent a major advantage against them. They also can't wear armor, so they just take full hits from whatever weapon the soldiers use. On the other side, civilians usually don't have much to throw at animals, and they often try to run. That gets them killed, since they usually can't put up much of a fight and the animals are faster than them anyway so they just waste actions, get tired out quickly, and then the animals bring them down. How strong the animal is precisely typically just makes a difference in how long the kill takes.

There is a major exception in that animals often don't put much effort into their attacks. Many animal attacks come from a predator simply approaching a dwarf, exchanging a few blows, and separating. In that case, it does make a major difference if the animal is capable of killing or maiming people in a few swings, and if the animal has only edged attacks. If it doesn't have blunt attacks, they tend to escalate past the lower-level combat stages to lethal combat much quicker.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 03:18:16 pm by Enemy post »
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voliol

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Re: DF Overhaul - Insects
« Reply #49 on: November 19, 2019, 03:47:21 pm »

Ghost ants fill me with nostalgia due to the ghost ants in the early 00-ies Mac game Bugdom. That game also had some other enemies that could be used, such as those nasty water scorpions which I believe would fit well in pond/lake biomes as carp-counterparts. Cordyceps as necromancers is an idea I like, even if it isn't extremely realistic (cordyceps only works on living ants).

brolol.404

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Re: DF Overhaul - Insects
« Reply #50 on: November 19, 2019, 04:43:43 pm »

I thought they'd just be an animal. From making Primal, I generally found that most animal predators follow the same general rule. Outside the extremes of weakness and strength, a concentrated attack will almost always kill civilians, but lose to actual soldiers. Generally, only overwhelming numbers or favorable circumstances for one side or another break that pattern. It's Dwarf Fortress though, so there's plenty of flukes in real combat.

I think the reason for this is that animals can't gain combat skills. As a result, even Novice Dodge and Block skills represent a major advantage against them. They also can't wear armor, so they just take full hits from whatever weapon the soldiers use. On the other side, civilians usually don't have much to throw at animals, and they often try to run. That gets them killed, since they usually can't put up much of a fight and the animals are faster than them anyway so they just waste actions, get tired out quickly, and then the animals bring them down. How strong the animal is precisely typically just makes a difference in how long the kill takes.

There is a major exception in that animals often don't put much effort into their attacks. Many animal attacks come from a predator simply approaching a dwarf, exchanging a few blows, and separating. In that case, it does make a major difference if the animal is capable of killing or maiming people in a few swings, and if the animal has only edged attacks. If it doesn't have blunt attacks, they tend to escalate past the lower-level combat stages to lethal combat much quicker.

The creatures in this mod will have natural skills (like dodge and bite), higher stats and a lot will have a chitin exoskeletons (comparable to brass in strength/protection) and natural weapons (like mandibles) so I think animals will be a lot more of a threat than they are in vanilla.

I would like to make this mod a lot more brutal than vanilla is. I think it fits the bug feel and gaining population is much easier with such large litter sizes and short child durations (making ants expendable in combat).

Ghost ants fill me with nostalgia due to the ghost ants in the early 00-ies Mac game Bugdom. That game also had some other enemies that could be used, such as those nasty water scorpions which I believe would fit well in pond/lake biomes as carp-counterparts. Cordyceps as necromancers is an idea I like, even if it isn't extremely realistic (cordyceps only works on living ants).

I will add water scorpions, but I think they will be regular creatures that are amphibious.

I will add water striders as well.

This is why I will probably make cordyceps a curse that effects living creatures or a "disease" that spreads to other living creatures instead of a necromancer curse. It will probably cause erratic behavior/crazed/opposed to life/etc.

« Last Edit: November 19, 2019, 04:48:16 pm by brolol.404 »
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scourge728

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Re: DF Overhaul - Insects
« Reply #51 on: November 19, 2019, 08:00:42 pm »

Just a reminder, the less time the ants live, the less likely they are to reach high levels of skills in various crafting and other such things

Enemy post

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Re: DF Overhaul - Insects
« Reply #52 on: November 19, 2019, 08:18:04 pm »

A few years should be sufficient time though, right? Doesn't it usually just take a year or two for them to get to Legendary in a skill, depending on what it is?
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scourge728

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Re: DF Overhaul - Insects
« Reply #53 on: November 19, 2019, 08:47:20 pm »

Honestly, I have no idea

cyberwarrior

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Re: DF Overhaul - Insects
« Reply #54 on: November 19, 2019, 09:11:06 pm »

You might have the ants skip the childhood stage and just come out as ready workers. They could continue growing in size through their life, and start out as just really small. The 3yr old ones could be the biggest and toughest, but be near old age death, so make for good natural soldiers. I think this might strike a good balance between realism and gameplay, though personally, i would set their max age to 5 years because I like increments of five.

Alternatively, you could have the timescale be different. A year for the ants could be considered a month, and base their lives around that.
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brolol.404

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Re: DF Overhaul - Insects
« Reply #55 on: November 19, 2019, 09:19:55 pm »

Just a reminder, the less time the ants live, the less likely they are to reach high levels of skills in various crafting and other such things

Good point. Ill keep this in mind during testing and either increase the skill learn rate or accept it as a weakness of the race (depending on what seems to work best).

You might have the ants skip the childhood stage and just come out as ready workers. They could continue growing in size through their life, and start out as just really small. The 3yr old ones could be the biggest and toughest, but be near old age death, so make for good natural soldiers. I think this might strike a good balance between realism and gameplay, though personally, i would set their max age to 5 years because I like increments of five.

Alternatively, you could have the timescale be different. A year for the ants could be considered a month, and base their lives around that.

This is a good idea. I do like the idea of having to protect a horde of child ants for the future of the fortress though. I actually have black ants living 12:15 years and wolf spiders only living 2:3. This is based on real life values. Only having ants live a few years would be really hard if you happened to get unlucky without a queen or drone the first few years, but I do like the idea of having them continue to grow their entire life making the older ants stronger.

justaguy3

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Re: DF Overhaul - Insects
« Reply #56 on: November 19, 2019, 10:20:42 pm »

This sounds super neat!

So, will this be focusing on realism, like with ants functioning more like they do in real life? Or will they be anthropomorphized and use tools, wear clothes and have a culture and the like?

Either way I'm excited to see where this goes!
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brolol.404

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Re: DF Overhaul - Insects
« Reply #57 on: November 20, 2019, 08:02:26 am »

This sounds super neat!

So, will this be focusing on realism, like with ants functioning more like they do in real life? Or will they be anthropomorphized and use tools, wear clothes and have a culture and the like?

Either way I'm excited to see where this goes!

This mod will focus on realism and the ants will not be anthropomorphic but I may include barding (armor) and barding (clothing). I will also have to work within the constraints of the system so ants will give live birth for example.

Let me know if you have any ideas/suggestions :)

brolol.404

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Re: DF Overhaul - Insects
« Reply #58 on: November 20, 2019, 08:53:25 am »

This is the final line up for the plants. This took me quite a bit of time brainstorming, debating and deciding on what plants would work best for this mod, but these are what I decided on. Once these are added I will move on to the creatures.

These are the grasses (added and done):



These are the trees. They drop seeds (or spores) for food and pollen (for use by bees to make wax and honey). The death-cap mushroom and stinkhorn spores will probably have a poisonous syndrome attached to them. The amanita mushroom spores will probably have an intoxication syndrome.



These are the harvestable/farmable plants (added and done). They are all underground. I considered making surface plants "drop" different types of berry seeds (like blueberry seeds) for food, but after a lot of testing, it didn't work too well in practice. Lichen can be made into thread/cloth/parchment.



These are the soil/stone types (added and done). Sandstone, siltstone, limestone, shale and obsidian are undiggable and have to be dug around.



voliol

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Re: DF Overhaul - Insects
« Reply #59 on: November 20, 2019, 10:57:36 am »

Looks good. What is the amanita mushroom in the good biomes, if it is neither a death cap nor a fly agaric?
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