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[A Thing]

I know the game isn't out yet, but how many DLC are out so far?

If we count the monarch's journey stuff, about 8-10.

[Cruxador]

My impression of the first of those two dev diaries is that it's different, but not necessarily better. Like, here's something new. Okay. It doesn't look like it's worse in particular either, but I'm not getting excited.

The second one seems like it could be very fun to some people, but it seems like a tedious system I worked only use of I had to, to me. Like, the CK2 system wasn't necessarily that fun, but it was a workhorse. You clicked the necessary buttons and got the necessary effect. This seems like it's really ramping up the amount that you have to pay attention to the system, learning secrets and blackmailing people and stuff just to get conspirators, without actually adding to the fun.

[hector13]

Well, you also know you’re going from a full game with all the bells and whistles to what will likely be an empty shell used as a framework to get you to pay more money later.

Paradox make generally good games, but you know you’re going to pay for it.

[Cruxador]

Well, you also know you’re going from a full game with all the bells and whistles to what will likely be an empty shell used as a framework to get you to pay more money later.

Paradox make generally good games, but you know you’re going to pay for it.

Both of these dev diaries correspond to systems that were in CK2 at launch, with only minor changes (not complete overhauls) since then.

[hector13]

Those two dev diaries don’t describe the totality of development.

CKII was released in 2012. 15 expansions were released in the following 6 years. Expect the same for this.

[Cruxador]

Those two dev diaries don’t describe the totality of development.

CKII was released in 2012. 15 expansions were released in the following 6 years. Expect the same for this.

If you're going to say something so obvious, you should elaborate on what relevance it has to the discussion. Are you trying to insinuate that the new, only slightly different, system is more expansible in some way? Speak plainly.

[hector13]

The two posts I made shouldn’t be taken in isolation.

[Cruxador]

The two posts I made shouldn’t be taken in isolation.

Yes, fine, but there is no clear point to anything you're saying in light of the context, neither of the two posts you made separately, nor the posts other people made. Perhaps you're pleased with the subtlety of your rhetoric, but it's not working; relevant meaning isn't being transmitted. All I'm getting from your posts is just repetition of obvious fact that is already a baseline assumption of all the discussion on the topic and, being so, can add nothing to the discussion.

So again, speak plainly.

[hector13]

You were chatting about not getting excited, I went meta and suggested you’re not getting excited because you know deep down you’re not going to get a game like CKII when CKIII is released, you’ll need to wait until after they’ve released a bunch of expansions you need to pay extra for, pushing up the price you have to pay to get a similarly excellent experience to the now complete CKII.

To put it another, clearer way, the seagull follows the trawler because they expect sardines to be thrown in the sea.

[Cruxador]

You were chatting about not getting excited, I went meta and suggested you’re not getting excited because you know deep down you’re not going to get a game like CKII when CKIII is released, you’ll need to wait until after they’ve released a bunch of expansions you need to pay extra for, pushing up the price you have to pay to get a similarly excellent experience to the now complete CKII.

To put it another, clearer way, the seagull follows the trawler because they expect sardines to be thrown in the sea.

Except I was talking specifically of the features in the two dev diaries, not about the game as a whole. Since these are basic features of a sort that Paradox rarely or never builds on in expansions to any meaningful degree, your "meta" is misplaced. Even when applied to the whole, it's something everyone already knows so I was assuming that you were trying to imply something a bit more nuanced by stating it now, but I guess not.

[hector13]

You’re an odd cookie. You make far too much effort to tell someone they talk shit.

I hope the jam returns to your doughnut.

[ZeroGravitas]

I think their new design philosophy is going to make CK3 suck. To be honest, the more I play of their games, the more I think CK2/EU4 happened to be them happening to get things right and just the right time. They don't know how or why, so they just keep porting mechanics from those two games to other things hoping to hit the jackpot again.

[EuchreJack]

I've bought like almost all of the content DLCs (and none of the "give your guys better hats" or "play more music" DLCs, although I did like the hats I got bundled into the content DLCs).  And I would do it again, because...

CKII was released in 2012. 15 expansions were released in the following 6 years. Expect the same for this.

The game was out for SEVEN years, yet every year, they released a DLC that made the game new again.  That is why Crusader Kings 2 has 1,040 hours played.  I've still payed less for CK2 and its DLCs than the equivalent playtime with other games.  And they come out like 2 a year, so its not terribly expensive (just kinda expensive).  Its a rare example of DLCs done right.  I would be surprised if anyone (including Paradox, who did right by CK2) could actually do it right again, because everyone wants to do less work for more money.  They're also probably going to keep stuff out to tuck into the DLCs, as they actually did that intentionally for CK2.  They also did a money grab by releasing Sengoku as a test platform for CK2, and charging almost full price, then completely and utterly abandoning it.  Can't say I love the developers, but CK2 was solid.

...I'm not sure what my point is, other than to say that CK3 can't be judged by the DLC policy of its developers (CK2 rocks).  I guess I'll probably upgrade, but not until the first 4-5 DLCs come out, so its at least as good as CK2.  And buy as a bundle, cause that discount really only works once.

[hector13]

Hey, don’t get me wrong, I’ve got upwards of 1200 hours on CKII and will probably do the same thing by waiting for a bundle, I’m just not made of money.

Some of the DLC for CKII was 15 bucks new, some of it was 10, some less, I think. Even then, assuming the same, a new game and buying all the DLC at ten a pop is more than $200.

I don’t think that CKIII on release will be able to hold a candle to how CKII is now, which is acceptable given the game has been out for almost a decade versus a new release. I think the very, very best that can be hoped for is a lateral move between the games, but it’ll probably be a downgrade.

[Sime]

 I'm far more excited in the next release of CK2+ than I am of CK3.       I think Paradox should design CK3 as continuously developed cloud service with bigger and bolder cluster-computed features that cannot be feasibly implemented on a single pc, and they should use that opportunity to ditch the DLC model entirely in favour of an annual subscription.   They should also continue to develop  CK2 as a desktop run game.