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Author Topic: Unplayable - Deady Body * 60 * all my dwarves  (Read 4839 times)

Fleshbits

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Unplayable - Deady Body * 60 * all my dwarves
« on: November 01, 2019, 09:01:55 am »

This is my 4th attempt on this version. I've read everything I can.
It seems inevitable that the fort collapses due to everyone going into fits from witnessing dead bodies.

I execute an invasion perfectly. I tell all my citizens to go to burrows away from the miasma and dead bodies. I then tell my military to do nothing but haul corpses and clean...for what appears to be an amount of time that is equal to how long it takes for the next invasion! All the bodies have been hauled to walled zones outside the fort, but they keep accumulating.

Inevitably, my military breaks down
Then the untrained replace them
Then they break down.

I've got artifact statues, tables, chairs, legendary bedrooms and dining areas. Nothing matters.

I don't see how anyone can play this version with how spineless the dwarves are.

Save File:
http://dffd.bay12games.com/file.php?id=14594
« Last Edit: November 01, 2019, 09:08:05 am by Fleshbits »
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PatrikLundell

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Re: Unplayable - Deady Body * 60 * all my dwarves
« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2019, 10:01:01 am »

I largely worked around the corpse hauling issue by using huge number of cage traps to catch enemies, only killing campers. This cuts down the number of corpses to haul substantially (partially replaced with less stress inducing, but still time consuming, work to dispose of the prisoners). I stopped playing after my 5:th or so fortress fell to the raid equipment corruption bug (I could have elected not to raid instead).

I've seen some resort to modding dorfs to be less sensitive to stress.

I dump all the bodies I have to collect into a deep hole to get them out of view of the corpse haulers using a minecart.
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qualiyah

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Re: Unplayable - Deady Body * 60 * all my dwarves
« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2019, 11:47:21 am »

I do what you do, but I haven't found it impossible to keep up with corpses from sieges.

I suspect the trouble is that you're hauling the bodies much too far. In general, I don't recommend having permanent corpse stockpiles--that requires a lot of space, plus every time a dwarf hauls a body to the stockpile, they see *every* body in the stockpile.

Instead, make a garbage zone over either an atom-smasher or a 5 z-level-deep garbage chute (with optional magma at the bottom) right in your battleground areas. Make several, if necessary. Then, you can either manually dump all the bodies and body parts (my preference, even though it's a bit tedious), or you can set up corpse stockpiles to feed into a minecart set to auto-dump into the atom-smasher/garbage chute. That way, they don't have to walk very far at all to dispose of the bodies.

Another thing that might help is to make your military larger.
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Loci

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Re: Unplayable - Deady Body * 60 * all my dwarves
« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2019, 12:29:23 pm »

Then, you can either manually dump all the bodies and body parts (my preference, even though it's a bit tedious)...

(d)esignate - (b)ulk - (d)ump  makes it much less tedious
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qualiyah

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Re: Unplayable - Deady Body * 60 * all my dwarves
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2019, 12:48:57 pm »

(d)esignate - (b)ulk - (d)ump  makes it much less tedious
The trouble with that is it designates everything to be dumped--not just body parts. Dumping only the body parts means clean-up finishes much quicker.
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Loci

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Re: Unplayable - Deady Body * 60 * all my dwarves
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2019, 01:04:51 pm »

(d)esignate - (b)ulk - (d)ump  makes it much less tedious
The trouble with that is it designates everything to be dumped--not just body parts. Dumping only the body parts means clean-up finishes much quicker.

Invader equipment is, by default, forbidden. If you leave it that way, your dwarves will ignore the junk while disposing of the body parts. (If there are unforbidden things on a soon-to-be battlefield, you can bulk-forbid them before the battle to accomplish the same result.) If you unforbid everything first, you're left with the tedious process of sorting it all out again.
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anewaname

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Re: Unplayable - Deady Body * 60 * all my dwarves
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2019, 02:44:01 pm »

Consider using the dfhack script to reset your dwarfs stress levels to 0. It will give you time to recover.
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Quote from: dragdeler
There is something to be said about, if the stakes are as high, maybe reconsider your certitudes. One has to be aggressively allistic to feel entitled to be able to trust. But it won't happen to me, my bit doesn't count etc etc... Just saying, after my recent experiences I couldn't trust the public if I wanted to. People got their risk assessment neurons rotten and replaced with game theory. Folks walk around like fat turkeys taunting the world to slaughter them.

qualiyah

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Re: Unplayable - Deady Body * 60 * all my dwarves
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2019, 03:48:28 pm »

Invader equipment is, by default, forbidden. If you leave it that way, your dwarves will ignore the junk while disposing of the body parts. (If there are unforbidden things on a soon-to-be battlefield, you can bulk-forbid them before the battle to accomplish the same result.) If you unforbid everything first, you're left with the tedious process of sorting it all out again.
Ah, I suppose you're right--that would work just fine. I just need to remember to forbid all the old goblinite when a new siege first begins. Cool!
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Bumber

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Re: Unplayable - Deady Body * 60 * all my dwarves
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2019, 03:02:11 am »

(d)esignate - (b)ulk - (d)ump  makes it much less tedious
The trouble with that is it designates everything to be dumped--not just body parts. Dumping only the body parts means clean-up finishes much quicker.
Use the stocks screen instead. It gives you a nice list of all the corpses.
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Quietust

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Re: Unplayable - Deady Body * 60 * all my dwarves
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2019, 08:58:57 am »

If all you're interested in keeping is the Metal items, then you can just do 3 designations in sequence: one to Dump, one to Melt (which has the useful effect of clearing the Dump flag), then one to Reclaim (to start your haulers working). If you want their clothes, too, you can un-dump them from the Stocks screen without too much trouble (since you can stay in Summary view).
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P.S. If you don't get this note, let me know and I'll write you another.
It's amazing how dwarves can make a stack of bones completely waterproof and magmaproof.
It's amazing how they can make an entire floodgate out of the bones of 2 cats.

Magistrum

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Re: Unplayable - Deady Body * 60 * all my dwarves
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2019, 12:22:21 pm »

Lije Patrick said, dead body chute into the magma/atom smasher, only way to keep them sane(and help a bit with FPS).
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NordicNooob

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Re: Unplayable - Deady Body * 60 * all my dwarves
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2019, 03:30:29 pm »

I normally fight in a specifically designed battle corridor, although the idea of "dig a 5z pit on top of the battlefield and dump everything into it" works perfectly fine. The battle corridor is a winding hallway with a retracting bridge floor, and the room under the bridges can be flooded and drained of magma. Deep pits instead of magma or using atom smashers instead of a retracting floor both also work.
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Fleshbits

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Re: Unplayable - Deady Body * 60 * all my dwarves
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2019, 11:07:11 pm »

I do what you do, but I haven't found it impossible to keep up with corpses from sieges.

I suspect the trouble is that you're hauling the bodies much too far. In general, I don't recommend having permanent corpse stockpiles--that requires a lot of space, plus every time a dwarf hauls a body to the stockpile, they see *every* body in the stockpile.

Instead, make a garbage zone over either an atom-smasher or a 5 z-level-deep garbage chute (with optional magma at the bottom) right in your battleground areas. Make several, if necessary. Then, you can either manually dump all the bodies and body parts (my preference, even though it's a bit tedious), or you can set up corpse stockpiles to feed into a minecart set to auto-dump into the atom-smasher/garbage chute. That way, they don't have to walk very far at all to dispose of the bodies.

Another thing that might help is to make your military larger.

Since the save, I have made a QSP for corpse disposal into a pit off the main hallway.
It isn't helping.

I went from 70 sane  dwarves down to 19 after one invasion during the cleanup.
It took them more than 9 months to clean up the mess.

There are 100s of teeth and body parts for every corpse. For some reason they seem to love to go grab the teeth first, so they can view the corpse 60 times before picking it up.

I limit the corpse pickup to my military, since they are the only ones that have any discipline and supposedly that's what you need for the job, but in doing so, it is even slower, because military units want to go do their individual combat drills when I have disabled every single job but corpse pickup for emergency cleaning.

It is really quite hopeless. The negative modifiers far out influence the positive ones.

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anewaname

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Re: Unplayable - Deady Body * 60 * all my dwarves
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2019, 11:18:10 pm »

...
It is really quite hopeless. The negative modifiers far out influence the positive ones.
Yes. Once you are have several dwarfs go over the edge, they cause more problems for others in the fort and it is difficult to recover. If you run the "remove-stress" script using dfhack, you will be able to continue forward, and work to avoid it after the next seige.
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Quote from: dragdeler
There is something to be said about, if the stakes are as high, maybe reconsider your certitudes. One has to be aggressively allistic to feel entitled to be able to trust. But it won't happen to me, my bit doesn't count etc etc... Just saying, after my recent experiences I couldn't trust the public if I wanted to. People got their risk assessment neurons rotten and replaced with game theory. Folks walk around like fat turkeys taunting the world to slaughter them.

PatrikLundell

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Re: Unplayable - Deady Body * 60 * all my dwarves
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2019, 04:31:43 am »

You can stop the "individual training" nonsense when off duty by manually remove the squad(s) from the training facilities. In my view that's necessary to get them to perform civilian jobs or go on R&R in a somewhat reliable manner. Obviously, you'll have to add the squads back to the training facilities when you put them back on training duty (easily forgotten).
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