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[Bumber]

Just curious, was there any indication that this thread has been used as an input for UX decisions?

Why would you start a thread asking for input on a new design you're making if you're not going to use it as input on the new design you're making?

From the OP:

We are aiming to fix as much of the UI and graphics issues as we can going into the Steam release coming up after the Villains release, so this question isn't so much about that.

This isn't really intended to be a UX thread, except for game-breaking flaws.

[Shonai_Dweller]

Just curious, was there any indication that this thread has been used as an input for UX decisions?

Why would you start a thread asking for input on a new design you're making if you're not going to use it as input on the new design you're making?

From the OP:

We are aiming to fix as much of the UI and graphics issues as we can going into the Steam release coming up after the Villains release, so this question isn't so much about that.

This isn't really intended to be a UX thread, except for game-breaking flaws.

It's whatever's going into the Steam release to stop noobs fleeing from the game in terror. "Workshop support" isn't UI either, nor is the tutorial. But both are part of the plans.

[voliol]

There’s not an obvious UI thread either, with the graphics thread of Meph’s & Mayday’s being properly about whatever they can influence, i.e. the graphics pack. Toady reads both threads though (as recently confirmed by Meph). I think, but these just my personal opinions/thoughts and may very well be unsupported in facts, that the reason Threetoe disencouraged UI suggestions, was that they would otherwise take up too much of the thread, and the important ”werebeast-type” issues would be drowned in ”give us mouse support”. Now that we have actual gui mockups to comment on though, those UI suggestions become much more insightful, and by this point the ”werebeast-type” issues have been mostly dealt with. So it ought to be okay to discuss the new UI screens here. Well, if they don’t mind us nitpicking.

[PatrikLundell]

There’s not an obvious UI thread either, with the graphics thread of Meph’s & Mayday’s being properly about whatever they can influence, i.e. the graphics pack. Toady reads both threads though (as recently confirmed by Meph). I think, but these just my personal opinions/thoughts and may very well be unsupported in facts, that the reason Threetoe disencouraged UI suggestions, was that they would otherwise take up too much of the thread, and the important ”werebeast-type” issues would be drowned in ”give us mouse support”. Now that we have actual gui mockups to comment on though, those UI suggestions become much more insightful, and by this point the ”werebeast-type” issues have been mostly dealt with. So it ought to be okay to discuss the new UI screens here. Well, if they don’t mind us nitpicking.

I don't think this thread is done. After all, that part of the work hasn't even started, and this thread would be a good place for feedback on what's presented eventually. Thus, UI discussions ought to take place in its own thread (and I agree the tile set one isn't the proper place either).

[Shonai_Dweller]

There’s not an obvious UI thread either, with the graphics thread of Meph’s & Mayday’s being properly about whatever they can influence, i.e. the graphics pack. Toady reads both threads though (as recently confirmed by Meph). I think, but these just my personal opinions/thoughts and may very well be unsupported in facts, that the reason Threetoe disencouraged UI suggestions, was that they would otherwise take up too much of the thread, and the important ”werebeast-type” issues would be drowned in ”give us mouse support”. Now that we have actual gui mockups to comment on though, those UI suggestions become much more insightful, and by this point the ”werebeast-type” issues have been mostly dealt with. So it ought to be okay to discuss the new UI screens here. Well, if they don’t mind us nitpicking.

I don't think this thread is done. After all, that part of the work hasn't even started, and this thread would be a good place for feedback on what's presented eventually. Thus, UI discussions ought to take place in its own thread (and I agree the tile set one isn't the proper place either).

So all we need is someone to start a new thread (in DF General Discussion). If it looks official, we mention it to Toady and Threetoe and then we just tell people on Reddit that it is official, focused discussion should just naturally occur.

...

Go ahead Patrik. 

--edit
And here it is. Great job Patrik
http://www.bay12forums.com/smf/index.php?topic=177122.msg8181151#msg8181151

[muldrake]

This isn't really intended to be a UX thread, except for game-breaking flaws.

It's for anything that drives away noobs that can actually be fixed.  Some things are integral to the game, like its natural complexity.  Other things, though, like the utterly horrible state of the embark screen, are early on things that noobs encounter and can easily conclude the game isn't for them.  Sometimes they're actually wrong about this, though, and it is those noobs who can be "saved."

Remember that the current project is a Steam release.  The Steam refund policy allows a no-questions-asked refund so long as it is before two hours of gameplay.  So while mercenary concerns have generally been considered beneath the notice of the devs, in this case, they actually do want a successful Steam release.  It's inevitable that some people are going to buy this game, freak out when they see what it actually is, and then refund before that two hour time period.

It's also not a time period that you can remotely understand DF in.  So some of those people will pull the trigger before that and not even realize the game actually had a lot to offer.

The main two elements of the game you'd encounter before your two hours were up would be worldgen and embark, so anything that gets a new player from there to actual immersive gameplay with some level of tutorial information will "save" some noobs.

[Bumber]

This isn't really intended to be a UX thread, except for game-breaking flaws.

It's for anything that drives away noobs that can actually be fixed.

I was responding to ror6ax in the context of this post in the tileset discussion thread. Meph said he avoids the thread due to Cruxador's posts. (The most recent being this one regarding the embark menu's background texture and warm versus cool tones.)

Maybe I misinterpreted ror6ax's reason for asking here, but in any case we've now got a thread dedicated to UI stuff, so minor UX stuff doesn't have to go here.

[clinodev]

In spirit I agree with muldrake, that this should be a thread about "anything that drives away noobs that can actually be fixed", preferably with far less old forum hand gatekeeping, but in practice Toady's just suggested using the FotF thread for UI.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

I'll be straight up, I haven't played in about a decade and I'm just dipping my toes back in anticipating the Steam version.

I'm reading through this thread (apologies if I miss things)  but the things that stand out to me so far:

1) The default loadout for a new "play now!" embark needs to be better, and include more of the things that it's easy to miss if you don't know what you're doing (e.g. gypsum plaster, dogs, chickens, llamas).

2) I'd really like it if the auto-search-for-an-embark-spot feature included searching for sand (i know high drainage is a proxy but still), high cliffs (elevation variance not just elevation), and surface magma (lava) as options; it's a pain to search for all of those manually.

3) adjustable font size. Some of the text displayed in the steam updates was really hard to read; we're all getting older, larger text is better.

4) Quickfort should really just be incorporated into the base game. (Speaking of, will the same keyboard commands carry over, or will they be changed for the Steam version? I don't want to have to redo all my old quickfort plans).

5) just always start on the first of granite. if you want the option to start on a later date bury that in a menu somewhere. Hitting that screen right at the start is a newbie trap: what the fuck? which day is good? which day is bad? why is it advancing? aaack!

6) Goblin raids and army seiges seem to not happen much any more? Those need to come back, or people aren't going to have a game to play with their game. I guess it's a worldgen issue but that needs significant tweaking so that raids happen with some frequency after the first few years; goblin armies are just the core of the DF experience for me.

7) some  difficulty presets would really help the newbie experience (few evil zones, no werebeasts/megabeasts in the first few years of the fort, etc.)

More as I play a bit more deeply again.

[PatrikLundell]

1. Plaster isn't critical and isn't always available. Splints and racks can take care of broken limbs.

2. Sand indicator is a DFHack addition, one of the tab views shows elevation while another shows the gradient, and volcanoes are readily visible. DF doesn't allow you to search for those, though.

4. DF will change a lot of key bindings as part of an attempt to make the UI more logical. I don't know anything about quickfort or how that might be affected by DF changes, though.

5.? DF simulates two weeks of travel to reach the embark. There's no option to change this (although it can be hacked). If you retire/abandon you start a new two week period for your next embark, but you always start on the same date in a new world.

6. There were significant issues for a lot of people in the past (0.40.x), although they were never much of an issue back then either if you planned your embark (which a newbie wouldn't know how to do, and, based on the amount of complaints, many experienced players didn't either). If anything, you seem to get more sieges now than before due to the really nasty new necro experiments. Also note that some people want raids and some want to play in relative peace. However, there may well be a need for better advice for players to find the embarks that are right for them.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

How much of DFhack will be incorporated into / work with the new Steam version,though?

[Starver]

Re: 5, I think it's doing a "simulating the world for a bit", to make sure dammed rivers properly dry out downstream[1], and newly-cut canals get properly filled, plus gives a chance to have small herds of wildebeast/reindeer on the landscape if the RNG calls any into the embark that they don't yet path out of again. Possibly also world-level army movements to continue History to a reasonable degree

[1] If they do that. I've not yet personally abandoned and reclaimed anything with such hydroengineering currently still to reach long term flow-equilibreum (only abandoned).

[Schmaven]

How much of DFhack will be incorporated into / work with the new Steam version,though?

The happy / unhappy dwarf counter is already incorporated.  I'm not sure what else at this point though.

[PatrikLundell]

How much of DFhack will be incorporated into / work with the new Steam version,though?

Nothing has been mentioned to be incorporated, which is to be expected, both because Toady generally doesn't mentioned planned details because they might not make it in, and because they haven't really reached the functionality improvement part to any extent yet (and it seems Toady doesn't look at what DFHack does much, and so might not even know if something is supported or not). I wouldn't expect much of DFHack's functionality to be included, though (a Sand indicator seems like a low hanging fruit, but we'll see [there are a number of bugs in the embark display info that may have a higher priority, though]). When it comes to DFHack I'd expect most of the functionality would be supported for the Premium version when DFHack catches up, but it will probably take longer than usual, as the new UI will at the least make the current DFHack UI functionality badly matched, and at worst would require a complete rework of the widgets from which the UI is built, and then rework of the functionality to use the reworked UI. Key bindings will also have to be reworked to a lesser or greater extent as DF reassigns keys.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

How much of DFhack will be incorporated into / work with the new Steam version,though?

Nothing has been mentioned to be incorporated, which is to be expected, both because Toady generally doesn't mentioned planned details because they might not make it in, and because they haven't really reached the functionality improvement part to any extent yet (and it seems Toady doesn't look at what DFHack does much, and so might not even know if something is supported or not). I wouldn't expect much of DFHack's functionality to be included, though (a Sand indicator seems like a low hanging fruit, but we'll see [there are a number of bugs in the embark display info that may have a higher priority, though]). When it comes to DFHack I'd expect most of the functionality would be supported for the Premium version when DFHack catches up, but it will probably take longer than usual, as the new UI will at the least make the current DFHack UI functionality badly matched, and at worst would require a complete rework of the widgets from which the UI is built, and then rework of the functionality to use the reworked UI. Key bindings will also have to be reworked to a lesser or greater extent as DF reassigns keys.

Ok, then that's my big feedback :

Incorporate all the shit in the most popular mods into the Steam version.

Those are the things players want. If there's a popular mod lots of people use that's adding, e.g., searchable sand, be sure to add that. That's important.

People loading the game up on steam are not going to listen when you tell them "well actually you need to go install six mods to make it fun". They're just not gonna play, and then they won't recommend it to their friends, and then sales don't happen. Plus if one of those mods isn't maintained, which happens often, you've pinned the success of your game on a broken axle.

So that's my big suggestion: make a general pass through the most popular mods and be sure that the features those mods add are part of the Steam base game. Graphics is the obvious play here but if there's a mod everyone uses because it enables good seiges (e.g., Masterwork) or basic search features (Sand, etc.) include those also.

You can always make it a togglable option if you want but the options should be there in the game. All those modders have done all that work adding the features people want; capture that work and use it.