Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[PatrikLundell]

I believe the "masterworks destruction" thought isn't triggered by sale of items anymore, but changed a fair while back, and I think decay if clothes in a refuse stockpile is safe as well (I use caravans to cart off all worn clothing, masterworks or not, so I haven't really seen the refuse destruction process, but items destroyed e.g. through the "destruction" of its wearer in magma or under a drawbridge still result in shock, as it should).

While repair of items is a reasonable idea, usage of more resources for repair than a new item makes sense only when you've invested heavily in the item (e.g. through decorations, or the item being masterworks, so the extra resources needed for repair actually is less than it takes to actually produce a new masterworks item [given that most attempts will result in a lower quality]).

[Pvt. Pirate]

i can confirm the bug with masterworks traded isnt present in 44.09 anymore.

i'm not far enough into having my own clothes industry, but i think a "repair clothing" job would be a nice thing.
the amount of material needed should be balanced out and maybe just require the same materials, so one doesn't repair a masterpiece adamantium shirt with a sheep wool yarn and degrade its quality or atleast make that a separate job to "fix it with whatever material available".
so there would be "restore clothes item" takes half to full time of the actual creation and uses the same material type conserves quality
and "fix clothes item" takes quarter to full time of actual creation and uses whatever material available and has a chance to lower quality.

[FantasticDorf]

To me a better option would be "Mend garments" reaction added to the clothier.

Consumes 1 string + 1 cloth + one worn cloth item.  Produces new-condition cloth item with previous amenities.

This would have the benefit of preventing "Suffered loss of a masterpiece" thoughts when clothes fall apart, get destroyed, or sold.

This is something for Toady to do with a [RESTORE_INTEGRITY:A] like token for the reagent hopefully which would probably resolve the problem fully and extend to the repair of other items like discarded invader armor. I agree for the reasons also people have put on here regarding retaining detail and decorations.

Books could even be 'repaired' for additional pages added.

[darkhog]

Okay, so this is from today's episode of DF play I've recorded. I'm kind of a noob (not complete one, but still not at the level of, say, Kruggsmash) and the trading interface is so complex that I've basically didn't buy what I wanted because I didn't know what I was doing and couldn't go back a step (or re-engage trade afterwards).

IMO it would be beneficial for new players if trade interface would be reworked so it looks like shop interface in any given RPG or MMO out there (with import agreement/"what do you want to get the next year" being a separate tab or something). And also, ability to renegotiate trade if you made a mistake and the traders haven't packed up and left yet.

[darkhog]

IMO, it would be prudent to warn players about embarking in dangerous conditions (evil biome, aquifer present, etc.). Like a very explicit warning (of course with an ability to be turned off by experienced players). Also there should be an option to auto find an easy embark (no acquifer, calm biome, lots of resources).

That's how it works right now. I mean, make the interface a bit clearer for people first seeing it, add some pop-ups about each option and stuff, but the warnings (aquifer, no wood, salt water, etc) and ability to select a non savage, non-evil, aquifer-free embark are all part of the standard embark process.

No, I've meant a single button that looks for safe conditions without you having manually enter them as search criteria.

[Schmaven]

I think better than a preset search for noobs would be to have a premade world with a predetermined cushy embark zone to start on.  Low savagery, no aquifer etc. like you mentioned, but take it all the way and have iron ores, flux stone, a small river, trees, a volcano, and whatever else we can think of that would be beneficial. 

There's no limit on the # of worlds, and if hard drive space is your concern, you can delete a world folder easy enough.

If I'm not mistaken, the embark finder mod allows one to save search criteria, so if adjusting settings really grinds your gears, there's a way around that.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I think better than a preset search for noobs would be to have a premade world with a predetermined cushy embark zone to start on.  Low savagery, no aquifer etc. like you mentioned, but take it all the way and have iron ores, flux stone, a small river, trees, a volcano, and whatever else we can think of that would be beneficial. 

There's no limit on the # of worlds, and if hard drive space is your concern, you can delete a world folder easy enough.

If I'm not mistaken, the embark finder mod allows one to save search criteria, so if adjusting settings really grinds your gears, there's a way around that.

For a tutorial, sure. Remember noobs decided to buy and want to play Dwarf Fortress. They're expecting a procedurally generated world to play in. It's the first wow! point of the game that it generates up an entire world and history just for you to play in. Don't take that away for the sake of someone who bought the game by mistake.

[Schmaven]

I think better than a preset search for noobs would be to have a premade world with a predetermined cushy embark zone to start on.  Low savagery, no aquifer etc. like you mentioned, but take it all the way and have iron ores, flux stone, a small river, trees, a volcano, and whatever else we can think of that would be beneficial. 

There's no limit on the # of worlds, and if hard drive space is your concern, you can delete a world folder easy enough.

If I'm not mistaken, the embark finder mod allows one to save search criteria, so if adjusting settings really grinds your gears, there's a way around that.

For a tutorial, sure. Remember noobs decided to buy and want to play Dwarf Fortress. They're expecting a procedurally generated world to play in. It's the first wow! point of the game that it generates up an entire world and history just for you to play in. Don't take that away for the sake of someone who bought the game by mistake.

I suppose the middle way would be to just default the embark search settings to the most noob friendly ones, rather than just arbitrary defaults.

[Shonai_Dweller]

I think better than a preset search for noobs would be to have a premade world with a predetermined cushy embark zone to start on.  Low savagery, no aquifer etc. like you mentioned, but take it all the way and have iron ores, flux stone, a small river, trees, a volcano, and whatever else we can think of that would be beneficial. 

There's no limit on the # of worlds, and if hard drive space is your concern, you can delete a world folder easy enough.

If I'm not mistaken, the embark finder mod allows one to save search criteria, so if adjusting settings really grinds your gears, there's a way around that.

For a tutorial, sure. Remember noobs decided to buy and want to play Dwarf Fortress. They're expecting a procedurally generated world to play in. It's the first wow! point of the game that it generates up an entire world and history just for you to play in. Don't take that away for the sake of someone who bought the game by mistake.

I suppose the middle way would be to just default the embark search settings to the most noob friendly ones, rather than just arbitrary defaults.

Yeah, the less one has to actually think about how to set all the options at first the better. Better than hiding them altogether.

[JesterHell696]

I think the biggest issue for noobs is tutorials or the lack there of, every threat can be countered if you know how but knowing anything in DF requires science from the community as there are no in-game guides.

I personally think a expansion of the Arena mode to include tutorials is ideal as the arena mode is already for testing stuff and it is the perfect grounds for tutorials on controls already.

I think that a fully functional fortress Arena map but each tutorial has something broken or removed and walks the player though building/fixing it, the farming tutorial would have a fortress with the farm plots, farming workshops and foods stockpiles removed and then walk the player though setting them up with customised announcements.

Also if somebody mods the game they could hypothetically mod their own tutorials into the Arena for any mod specific things players need to know.


Other things I think might help noobs include,

• Preset embark search options (savage lands, evil lands, wetlands) these are quick and easy to use and acts as examples of potential search options.
• Preset embarks and details about what is in them (quick smiting, husbandry, combat/reclaim) quick and easy to use and acts as examples of how to outfit for a certain goal.
• Preset adventurer options (bard, swordsman, carpenter)
• Preset options can be presented as "difficulty" levels, demigod = easy, savage lands = medium, combat/reclaim = hard

This kind of setup allows for a lot of information to be presented to the player without using a tutorial and will help new players avoid the mistake I made the first time I played Adventure mode, I thought peasant, hero and demigod where difficulty levels and chose the "easy" mode peasant, which was very, very wrong.

[darkhog]

I think you need to implement Dwarf Therapist functionality directly in the game. It makes setting up labor much easier than in the game itself. It is essential for it to be implemented if you want to really save the noobs.

Moreover, you also need to look at other utilities (DFMon, Legends Viewer, etc.) to see what else you should add because if people thought the way game handles this stuff is perfect, these programs wouldn't exist.

[PatrikLundell]

I think you need to implement Dwarf Therapist functionality directly in the game. It makes setting up labor much easier than in the game itself. It is essential for it to be implemented if you want to really save the noobs.

Moreover, you also need to look at other utilities (DFMon, Legends Viewer, etc.) to see what else you should add because if people thought the way game handles this stuff is perfect, these programs wouldn't exist.

It's a matter of priorities: Should Toady spend the development time implementing 3:rd party tool functionality in the game itself if those tools are good enough for most people, develop new contents, or fixing bugs? Time spent on one task means time not spent on the others (but I definitely liked seeing the DFHack "building" naming functionality provided natively [better in some respects, and worse in others, so I use both], so it's not that I'm against it in principle).
Obviously, 100% of the time shouldn't be spent on one of these, so it's a matter of balance rather than a straight one or the other, but it still comes down to priorities.
You can also see 3:rd party utilities as a way by the community to offload some work from Toady, although that won't help the purist part of the player base.

[Pvt. Pirate]

I think you need to implement Dwarf Therapist functionality directly in the game. It makes setting up labor much easier than in the game itself. It is essential for it to be implemented if you want to really save the noobs.

Moreover, you also need to look at other utilities (DFMon, Legends Viewer, etc.) to see what else you should add because if people thought the way game handles this stuff is perfect, these programs wouldn't exist.

It's a matter of priorities: Should Toady spend the development time implementing 3:rd party tool functionality in the game itself if those tools are good enough for most people, develop new contents, or fixing bugs? Time spent on one task means time not spent on the others (but I definitely liked seeing the DFHack "building" naming functionality provided natively [better in some respects, and worse in others, so I use both], so it's not that I'm against it in principle).
Obviously, 100% of the time shouldn't be spent on one of these, so it's a matter of balance rather than a straight one or the other, but it still comes down to priorities.
You can also see 3:rd party utilities as a way by the community to offload some work from Toady, although that won't help the purist part of the player base.

it will also not be there for the players on the new steamrelease who want an all-in-one package.

[darkhog]

I think another thing that would help new players would be a change to how labors are distributed upon embark.

By which, I mean (aside of standard setting up labors according to dwarven skills), randomly distributing labors in a way that would make at least 1 dwarf capable of doing each labor (even if he/she doesn't have any skill in it). This would cut down on "Why my dorfs don't do X" questions dramatically (they would still happen as there may be other reasons, but at least the biggest one, labor distribution, would be take care of).

[Schmaven]

it will also not be there for the players on the new steamrelease who want an all-in-one package.

It's unfortunate so many people get so easily discouraged.  One of my good friends is interested in DF because of the storied I've told of my forts, but he has very little patience, and is fairly computer illiterate despite being an avid gamer.  He tried installing it and playing a tutorial on his own, but gave up at some point early on.  I think that had I been there to talk him through things, he would have stuck it out.  It's hard to say for sure.

Has anyone else had an experience like this?