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[Shonai_Dweller]

This kind of result isn't bad.  We want this.

I want to know what kind of play style is causing people to quit in frustration.

We are aware of socialization problems.  I haven't seen a game ending problem here, but these will definitely be addressed at some point.

Help us find out what's going on and we will attempt to fix it!

I would humbly suggest you're probably damn good at the game.

He created the game...

[Sajiky]

I'm aware. Hence the suggestion .

[Putnam]

Hello everyone.

This post is old, I don't know if there is still a relevance about Stress problems. However I want to share my gaming experience and how I play. And how I still perceive problems related to Stress.

In Dwarf Fortress, in Fortress mode, I always like to start at the beginning of the history of the worlds that are generated. I like to experience the first things. The first heroes, the first monsters, the first wars, the first Scholars, the first books, the first written poems, the first necromancers. And so on. And so, follow the initial historical facts and see their possible consequences. Follow the story from there.

I like to consider details, history of dwarves that I consider important and all the historical events that he can do.

Well, saying my preferences. I'll tell you now about the last game I had in July, in version 47.04.

I started a fortress in a world in the year 5, in a temperate environment, the fortress is called Èzumorrum “Hameroared”, The Odorous Books (the name was generated randomly and I liked it)

In the year 6 a couple of Dwarfs came to migrate to the fortress and they came as Peasants, they had no skills, but with deep personalities and a newborn daughter.
I focused on choosing the Dwarf man to be a warrior, a HammerDwarf, he eventually became a “Grand Master HammerDwarf” !!! And his name is Sarvesh Udilalmôsh (Sarvesh Lantergleam), “The Hammerer of the Hameroared” (my invention)
He became a legendary warrior and he came to have 2 notable deaths, a goblin and a cyclops. However, he gained a great deal of stress. At first I thought it would be easy to deal with, but it got worse ... a lot. He now has depression.


I went to check his history. And he says he cares a lot about his family.

https://ibb.co/S526jCd

 So I had left him in Idle, to do nothing, so that he might talk to his wife and daughter, to meet the need for Be With Family…. BUT…. as far as I followed, for four months (time in the game), just observing Sarvesh, he always complained about not being able to be with his family, but it seems that he never met this need while in Idle. And he also always complains about the food, even if he fed on a MasterWork Prepared Meal. Rejecting masterwork prepared meal, in my view, is a bug or something abnormal, in previous versions of Dwarf Fortress this would never happen.
And his main dish, no civilization in the region has it, no one has yet discovered potatoes. The drink was possible (River Spirits), but potatoes ... impossible.

And his stress only gets worse, I tried to intervene without using DFHack, but it seems to be impossible to deal with it in Vanilla mode.

This has somewhat frustrated the gameplay, broken my fun a little. And hope that the gameplay will improve in the coming patches.

That's it, I would like to leave it on record. And I'm sorry if I said something very wrong, my English is not good. But I felt a great need to post my experience and my problem on the Stress system.

I don't think your dwarf's stress has to do with the family. You're focusing on it there, but the actual important bit here are depression propensity and anxiety propensity, both of which are very high for this particular dwarf.

[Jundavr]

I think the worst stress related problem right now is the NEEDS system.

Dwarves are terrible at fulfilling their needs, and there are things that require extensive micromanagement to keep your fort satisfied. I wrote a topic on this, by the way, and there are things that I still can't get a hold of.

One example is the need to Eat good meal. It's extremely frustrating and micromanage extensive to cook things to the preference of each dwarf, and with enough time they'll start to accumulate bad thoughts, and depending on their personality will enter depression solely because of that. Doing EVERYTHING ELSE the optimal way and losing a dwarf because of a broken or thoroughly unbalanced game feature sucks.

Another example is the need to be with family or friends, and that dwarf has ZERO love propensity, causing them to never making friends with anyone. I have a 25 dwarf fort and everyone has at least a page worth of friends, but there is one specific dwarf who has only "long term acquaintances". Also, dwarves that want family can be either asexual or not interested in marriage.

[scriver]

Another example is the need to be with family or friends, and that dwarf has ZERO love propensity, causing them to never making friends with anyone.

Literally me in real life

[Bumber]

I think the worst stress related problem right now is the NEEDS system.

Research seems to show otherwise. Unmet needs only cause a bad thought every once in a while. Negative long term memories cause continuous stress. The memories don't seem to ever get replaced by ones of equal strength, so if you fill up too many memory slots with powerful negative memories before you can get powerful positive ones, then your dwarf is inevitably doomed.

[PatrikLundell]

I think the worst stress related problem right now is the NEEDS system.

Research seems to show otherwise. Unmet needs only cause a bad thought every once in a while. Negative long term memories cause continuous stress. The memories don't seem to ever get replaced by ones of equal strength, so if you fill up too many memory slots with powerful negative memories before you can get powerful positive ones, then your dwarf is inevitably doomed.

Well, sensitive dorfs can get remember the bad thoughts about missed needs very frequently, on top of the occasional thoughts about those same missed needs, causing them to crash mentally. It may well be that it might be possible to replace those memories with others, if you could devise a method, though.

[FantasticDorf]

Im not sure on my recollection, but by the same logic that removing preference strings from animals makes them unable to appear on dwarven preferences, then by extent it should apply to everything else too.

You can remove all preference strings from the game but that of common_domestic animals, cavern plants & dwarven alcohol to narrow it down in a cultural sense surrounding easily accessible dwarven materials but that really takes a lot of the shine out of the system without some significant retooling how dwarven tastes are obtained, while being a bit ham-fisted in removing most of the quirky individualism dwarves enjoy.

Hence why i think a all new preference string field would address the problem of diagnosing the issues surrounding things like eating fancy meals, in non-broad needs without touching preference strings.

I don't mean to honk my own horn too much but two relevant ideas i've offered over on the suggestions forum, past and present.

New solid cultural finished food products in order to make a relevant dish that like alcohol has a strength of value + what a dwarf regards it as a preference to how much it fills up.

&

Interactable interface for interrogating some of the *context from the dwarven personality screens

[Jundavr]

Im not sure on my recollection, but by the same logic that removing preference strings from animals makes them unable to appear on dwarven preferences, then by extent it should apply to everything else too.

That was a decent guess, but it's wrong, sadly.

I used a fancy text editor to find [PREFSTRING:*] and replace it with nothing in all of the raws, then I created a new world and fired up a fort. The dwarves all had preferences as normal, just not a "likes foo for their bar" entry.

In hindsight, if I had realized that things such as crafts (figurines, catapult parts, etc.) and alcohol have no prefstring whatsoever, I wouldn't have to conduct such an extreme empirical test.

[PatrikLundell]

As far as I understand the prefstrings are for liking the animals (and other things) not eating them ("Urist likes fleshballs for their calming roundness", which, in the case of animals, would mean they'd like having that creature as a pet).

[Quietust]

As far as I understand the prefstrings are for liking the animals (and other things) not eating them ("Urist likes fleshballs for their calming roundness", which, in the case of animals, would mean they'd like having that creature as a pet).

The code for generating preferences can actually reject objects lacking PREFSTRINGs, but only in the case of non-domestic animals (e.g. the case described above) - plant and tree preferences can also reference a prefstring, but they don't require it to exist like the above example would.

[FantasticDorf]

~snip~

That was a decent guess, but it's wrong, sadly.
~snip of his method~

In hindsight, if I had realized that things such as crafts (figurines, catapult parts, etc.) and alcohol have no prefstring whatsoever, I wouldn't have to conduct such an extreme empirical test.

As far as I understand the prefstrings are for liking the animals (and other things) not eating them ("Urist likes fleshballs for their calming roundness", which, in the case of animals, would mean they'd like having that creature as a pet).

The code for generating preferences can actually reject objects lacking PREFSTRINGs, but only in the case of non-domestic animals (e.g. the case described above) - plant and tree preferences can also reference a prefstring, but they don't require it to exist like the above example would.

Thanks for the insight, though i would add that no prefstrings on exotic animals also means no products derived from them (which was what I originally meant @PatrickLundell) so there may yet be a purpose for allievating exotic panda meat cravings.

Im getting by on my micro test fortresses on a number of tricks at the moment, mainly by mixing (or in universe -dipping) as much food with alcohol as possible to create decadent meals for *some dwarves and utilizing honeymoon suites on anybody to just force relationships to form for the big deluge of one time need fufillment. Given the hostile enviroment of a death sphere evil biome needs a lot of concentration from focused militia members and the plate-spinning to keep their cool, i've chalked dwarf needs up in my fortress as a high priority.

Its starting to unravel though as locations i required for some needs, are actively undermining the usefulness of my burrows for herding people around into these suites/public need fufillment areas as people won't go to their bedrooms for the exploit until locations are turned off. Also like Bumber has mentioned seperately, im keeping a close monitoring on memories because a lot of dwarves are experiencing attacked by the undead memories, if these are committed into dwarf psyhce, and they can't remove then then i have a significant uphill battle to keep them unstressed.

[Eric Blank]

Here are a few specific suggestions that would help dwarves fill their needs and avoid negative thoughts;
- dwarves should specifically seek out family members and acquaintences to socialize if they're socializing, or seek out new acquaintences if nobody they know is on break and they're not very-low on the "gregariousness" personality trait. Children should seek out and socialize with parents or other family members whenever one of them isn't working.
- dwarves should intentionally que up to do the next job of whatever skills they have enabled when they become bored from not practicing a skill/craft or being artistic. - I often see the same dwarf repeatedly performing a task until he becomes legendary while other dwarves who have that skill enabled complain of boredom. I would have to micro-manage each individual dwarf in their own private workshops with monthly manager work orders to ensure they all participate. Which turns into a nightmare to keep track of and is definitely not noob-friendly
- allow hospital labors to fulfill "help someone" and "practice a craft" (It is their craft, afterall)
- reduce the strength of the captain of the guard's "frustrated by scarcity of cages and chains" thought. That, on top of all the various sources of stress available already. They last about two years on average even with sufficient restraints, often less especially if the fortress undergoes regular stressful events like sieges or beasts and critters getting in and killing people. I consider it a death sentence for the dwarf unless I can find one with low stress-vulnerability and no "red flag" personality traits.

[Quietust]

As far as I understand the prefstrings are for liking the animals (and other things) not eating them ("Urist likes fleshballs for their calming roundness", which, in the case of animals, would mean they'd like having that creature as a pet).

The code for generating preferences can actually reject objects lacking PREFSTRINGs, but only in the case of non-domestic animals (e.g. the case described above) - plant and tree preferences can also reference a prefstring, but they don't require it to exist like the above example would.

Thanks for the insight, though i would add that no prefstrings on exotic animals also means no products derived from them (which was what I originally meant @PatrickLundell) so there may yet be a purpose for allievating exotic panda meat cravings.

I suppose my explanation above wasn't as clear as it could've been - what I meant to say is that it only applies to dwarves liking animals as pets, as is indicated on the linked wiki page.

In other words, removing the PREFSTRINGs from giant pandas will stop dwarves from wanting to keep them as pets, but it won't have any effect on their desire to eat them or make crafts from their bones and/or leather.

[Zebulonius]

Background first; I'd say I'm a casual to intermediate DF player, I've been playing on-and-off since 2012 and have dealt with most features in the game in one form or another.

I came back to DF after not having played since around 2016 or so, went in to the current version completely blind. I'm typing this up shortly after ragequitting my third fortress, in which I googled "Dwarf Fortress stress bugged" afterward. This thread was the first result, I made an account to give my thoughts, here I am.

I like two things: dwarvern warriors and clean, above-ground fortresses. I've played fortresses where I wall up my entrance and never leave, I've played fortresses where I create cage trap labyrinths and open a goblin-only magma bath house. They have their charm, but it's glorious combat and pristine ramparts that I seek.

My first fortress was pretty standard, early needs push, no concern for aesthetics, quick 20 dwarf army in full iron. Goblin seige. Finally! Combat! An excellent first victory with many more to come, or so I thought. Cleanup time. Don't want to give a bad impression to the outpost liason. Dwarves start by grabbing the fallen foes gear. Typical dwarves. Suddenly, red arrows. Red? That's new. Let's check out Urist Corpsehauler.
>"I feel so good!"
>*Urist Corpsehauler has become haggard and drawn due to the tremendous stresses placed on him.*
>*He was uneasy seeing a goblin's dead body x10000*
Oh. New mechanic I guess. Awesome! More challenge! We'll finish this cleanup in due time. Back to your burrows, dwarves, it's time to relax. Feast upon masterwork roasts in our legendary dining room. Treat yourselves to a masterwork pair of alpaca wool mittens. Nap in your grand quarters.

A month later, the arrows persist. Alright, stress is no joke. Two months, arrows. Urist, you know we live in the lap of luxury, right? Why aren't you socializing with anyone? Lack of decent meals? We have every food type and a stack of masterwork meals of each. Why is your stress not going away? It's been six months, chill out dude.

>Urist Corpsehauler is throwing a tantrum!
>Urist Corpsehauler is fighting!
>Urist Corpsehauler punches Urist Mindshisbusiness in the head and the severed part sails off in an arc!
>Urist Corpsehauler has triggered a tantrum spiral that will cause the inevitable downfall of your fortress no matter what actions you take!

Armoks ballhair. Next fort. We'll shield our delicate dwarves from both the horrors of war AND precipitation. We'll build a grand fortress of marble to act as a bulwark against this cruel, uncaring nightmare world in which we inhabit. Sure, it's in a taiga, but you dwarves can handle a little snow, right? Start cutting those blocks. Aw nuts, siege. And we haven't even finished our bastion of reality ignorance. Avert your eyes I guess?
>Urist Corpsehauler has yadda yadda everyone is dead

Third fort. Everyone underground. As far as we're concerned the outside doesn't exist. The sky is a myth. Two years, no problems. But what are we going to do with all these adamantine shortswords? Seems a shame for them to go to waste. Alright, one squad go and raid the forbidden land for books. On queue, siege. Our warriors return, it's a massacre on both sides. Such is the way of war. But now we have to properly immortalize our fallen heroes. And Armok damn me if I'll let a legion of stinking goblin carcasses sully out beautiful fortress. Suddenly, I am transported to the forbidden lands. Dead goblins all around. Water falling on my head. WATER. The horror. Urist looks meaningfully in my direction. And then, darkness.

What I'm getting at is, it sort of feels... inevitable? It starts slow with stress that feels impossible to remove, moves on to tantrums, etc. I cover every base with almost every fulfilled need, beside socializing and family as it's bugged, but it doesn't seem to do anything to stress. And food, I still don't know what gives, but my larder is full of masterwork delicacies of every kind but my dwarves still complain. I guess I could force dwarves to prioritize corpse hauling to reduce their exposure to them, but do I need to remove all other labours one by one? I genuinely don't know. And I guess that's where the frustration comes in. I'm not getting any feedback on what I need to do to specifically stop or mitigate stress aside from remove dwarves from stress sources. Which would involve letting corpses pile up out of sight and being less militaristic. I feel like I have to avoid the things I enjoy doing in dwarf fortress if I want my game to continue.

Sorry for the word wall. Thank you if you read it all.