Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[GoblinCookie]

If we lose our fortress to an invasion then presently it simply becomes a ruin that we can reclaim.  In a few of cases this makes sense such as the following.

-Undead would just carry the bodies of our dwarves back to their towers for reanimation (not presently the case).
-Forgotten Beasts/Megabeasts/Titans would likely leave our fortress in ruins.

In the case of a lot invading civilizations however, it does not make sense that they would simply leave a fully built-up fortress in ruins to be reclaimed, especially if it's location is of strategic value.  The proposal here is that they decide what to do with a fortress when they have captured it based upon a combination of the fortress 'livability value' and it's strategic importance or liability.  The livability value is how suitable the fortress is for habitation by dwarf or other life.  Factors deciding livability could be the following.

+ Having a large number of accessible bedrooms increases livability.
+ Having an accessible dining room increases livability.
+ Having a large number of tame animals increases livability (except for elves).
+ Having access to a river or lake increases livability.
+ Having wells with drinkable water increase livability.
- Having accessible areas without fortification reduces livability.
- Setting up your fortress to be regularly flooded reduces livability.

This means that if you simply lie about in a field and do nothing before being conquered it is unlikely the invading goblins will occupy your fortress and you will be free to return.  If the fortress is occupied the occupiers will set up a group of huts with beds in them which house about 20 people each if present housing is insufficient.  The total population of the occupied player fortress is the number of bedrooms that there were at the time of it's conquest plus these huts.

The proposal is to have a mode in which we reconquer sites we have lost.  What happens is that we command an army from a playable civilization generated normally with the usual array of weaponry and we have to overcome the defending army which is of the civilization that occupies the site.  Civilians, including potentially dwarves from our previous embark do not fight at all but instead belong to whoever wins the invasion, should they survive the crossfire.  Once we have won the invasion we get three options, the first is for us to destroy the site and expel the population; that option would result in us being able to reclaim the site normally but we would lose most or all of the wealth to looting and the existing population would not be there.  The second option would result in you immediately embarking with the regular group of dwarves which are then immediately joined by any surviving civilian population.  The third option gives the site over to the conquering civilization to be ruled by an AI, maintaining the Status Quo in most mechanical senses. 

The third option largely exists because the second option would not be available if the population is higher than the population cap. 

[scourge728]

+1

[Azerty]

Livability should depend from the biologocal imperatives of the invaders: an amphibian species wouldn't have use of an inland site and would merely ask for a tribute or just simply destroy it.

And, combined with my suggestions about civil law, it would be interesting to see whether the former inhabitants would be treated as equals or secong-class citizens.

[scourge728]

and would merely ask for a tribute

the a.i should be able to do this to the player

[GoblinCookie]

and would merely ask for a tribute

the a.i should be able to do this to the player

The AI is not clever enough for that to work out in it's favor. 

[Schmaven]

I like this idea.  Also, it would be a fun option for resettling an existing fort.  Suppose you have a 50 strong Dwarven army, and no longer like your location (no iron or whatever).  An option to invade another civilization's site where it becomes like a fresh embark, only with the existing civ's AI running the fort.  Then you have to say slay the mayor / baron / king before you can gain any positions of your own.  I'm a bit torn about whether to allow building and digging before victory is achieved just because of how easy it would be to exploit that and tunnel in to win.  But siege weapons make sense to build in this case.  It would be fun to take over some goblin pits this way. 
Edit: A total domination mode of victory could also be an option, where you have to kill or route everyone before the site is yours.

There are a number of changes queued up regarding the military, AI, and siege engines that would make this option much more complete.  Even without those changes, having the current squad control would be enough for most cases.  Just as long as they don't turtle behind draw bridges!

Perhaps an intermediate stepping stone toward this being a reality would be the option to directly control a raiding party and see how that goes.

[GoblinCookie]

I like this idea.  Also, it would be a fun option for resettling an existing fort.  Suppose you have a 50 strong Dwarven army, and no longer like your location (no iron or whatever).  An option to invade another civilization's site where it becomes like a fresh embark, only with the existing civ's AI running the fort.  Then you have to say slay the mayor / baron / king before you can gain any positions of your own.  I'm a bit torn about whether to allow building and digging before victory is achieved just because of how easy it would be to exploit that and tunnel in to win.  But siege weapons make sense to build in this case.  It would be fun to take over some goblin pits this way. 
Edit: A total domination mode of victory could also be an option, where you have to kill or route everyone before the site is yours.

There are a number of changes queued up regarding the military, AI, and siege engines that would make this option much more complete.  Even without those changes, having the current squad control would be enough for most cases.  Just as long as they don't turtle behind draw bridges!

Perhaps an intermediate stepping stone toward this being a reality would be the option to directly control a raiding party and see how that goes.

The existing civ's AI running the site?  The idea is that the existing civ's AI runs the fort between when you lose control of the site and when you successfully reconquer it in Invasion Mode. 

I came up with idea when thinking about rebellions.  The problem there is what happens if the dwarves rebel but your fortress is not viable for adventurer mode compatibility?  I realised then the game would have to have some algorithm to finish unfinished sites whose governments were overthrown.  Then I realised this could be used to run player sites that were conquered by other parties.