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[Mephansteras]

Hello, new thread.

[pikachu17]

PTW

[Flying Dice]

Hello darkness, my old friend, I've come to watch your posts again.

Very true. I mean, that's basically our answer when people want the devs to maintain cdda as a cyberpunk transhumanism game.

The problem is that you're still missing it. There are the people who liked that bionics-heavy playstyle. There were people who liked the Mad Max-y car-building side of the game. There were people who liked the martial arts aspects of the game. There were people who liked to collect a bunch of guns and run around like it was a shooting gallery.

Those playstyles and more besides were both possible and viable. All of them have been to some degree curtailed so that they no longer work or are much more tedious and/or unreliable. Sometimes this is intentional, sometimes it's a "we need to change this but I'm not going to do it properly right now so the system will just have to be shit for multiple years". It's not an easy "just make an X mod" solution when the problem is that every playstyle which does not align with the core "tedium survival simulation" goal is neutered and made either irrelevant or impossible. This is on the level of removing the ability to cook food and saying, "tough, just deal with it, there's still MREs and eating raw food". The right approach would to have made each of those big chunks of things optional inclusions as they were addressed, but that would have taken hard work and proactive thought.

The only playstyle that has really benefited to some extent are the innawoods folks, and that only accidentally by virtue of there being more handcrafted recipes now so they can avoid towns more.

[scourge728]

The way I see it, if you don't want your players to do a thing because your goals have changed, either remove that thing or leave it as is, don't just nerf it and hope people will stop using it

[SOLDIER First]

Nineteenth

[scourge728]

I don't get it

[SOLDIER First]

I wanted to say "first", but it wouldn't have been funny because I wasn't first. So I said "nineteenth" instead, because I was nineteenth.

[Erk]

Hello darkness, my old friend, I've come to watch your posts again.

Very true. I mean, that's basically our answer when people want the devs to maintain cdda as a cyberpunk transhumanism game.

The problem is that you're still missing it. There are the people who liked that bionics-heavy playstyle. There were people who liked the Mad Max-y car-building side of the game. There were people who liked the martial arts aspects of the game. There were people who liked to collect a bunch of guns and run around like it was a shooting gallery.

I would argue that you are missing it. If they liked it before, whatever they liked is still there. Nobody's deleted any of that game. Anyone who wants to play it can go download it and have the same fun they always did.

More to the point, it's extremely clear you don't play the current version of the game. Every single one of those playstyles is still massively popular. Cars, for example, are better than ever, because now you actually have to make choices instead of just "find part, install part". Most of the martial arts now have a distinct role, instead of the good old "haha wrong choice now your character sucks" that was most of them before... And many of the rest were "now no zombie can touch me".

The reason we generally don't listen to people with your general attitude - the one that we can't ever change anything without leaving a legacy version - is because not only are we not interested in maintaining that, but we already do. It's the old game. Moreover, the new game is more popular *by far* than it's ever been, with a more active community of players that are excitedly adding the sort of changes you think have ruined it.

The right approach would to have made each of those big chunks of things optional inclusions as they were addressed, but that would have taken hard work and proactive thought.

On one hand you're recognizing that the game has changed a lot and it would be hard to capture all those old elements, and at the same time you think we should be maintaining all those old elements as dozens of separate encoded options. I have no idea why you think we should be maintaining things we don't want to keep in the game, but people who want to keep them in the game have no role in maintaining what they want.

The only playstyle that has really benefited to some extent are the innawoods folks, and that only accidentally by virtue of there being more handcrafted recipes now so they can avoid towns more.

I'm sorry, but that is so incredibly false as to be completely hilarious. You clearly have no idea what recent cdda gameplay is like.

I know you have all the answers for how we should be maintaining the repository we own, for a game that we like and play far too many hours of to be good for us, that you obviously no longer play in anything resembling its current form. However, I think we will continue to ignore your advice and play the game we're enjoying. As I've said, despite our insistence on adding and improving features and game balance we want to add and improve, the community at large only seems to add more people who want to play what we're making. And, to date, for all I hear (mainly from you and two or three other people in this forum) about how we're ruining everything, nobody seems to want to step up to maintain the much vaunted playstyles of yore. There are several doors and they're all wide open.

[anexiledone]

I kind of dropped from playing after the huge performance hit that came with 1 second turns and some of the map memory stuff. Is performance still bad? I used to go out and smoke a cigarette whenever my character was sleeping because sleep was taking forever. Sucks because there were a lot of big changes around that time that I never really got to dive into

As far as the direction the game is going these days, I'm not so sure it's going to be a game for me anymore. But that happens with a lot of games that are forever being expanded and altered, so it's not like there's hard feelings or anything. The game is still a marvel of coding, and it's done a lot of pretty impressive stuff. Even more when you consider how much of the code used to be worked around hack jobs. It's very impressive

[King Zultan]

Quite frankly I prefer the old cataclysm DDA and think the newer versions are shit and will probably never update again.


Now that that's out of the way does anyone have an opinion of that animatronics mod that comes with the main game, because I figured out why half the shit in it didn't spawn.

[Erk]

I kind of dropped from playing after the huge performance hit that came with 1 second turns and some of the map memory stuff. Is performance still bad? I used to go out and smoke a cigarette whenever my character was sleeping because sleep was taking forever. Sucks because there were a lot of big changes around that time that I never really got to dive into

Yep, performance improvements actually mean that at this point it's a little faster than it was before. There was some really bizarre overcalculating going on

[Random_Dragon]

Yep, performance improvements actually mean that at this point it's a little faster than it was before. There was some really bizarre overcalculating going on

Yeah, in my experience the performance issues have mostly been fixed, it's now just various random things occasionally still operate on the assumption that a turn is six seconds. It's probably going to be a while until every last possible instance of that is found and corrected.

An unfortunate side effect of a useful change, sadly.

[mlangsdorf]

There were people who liked the Mad Max-y car-building side of the game. ... Those playstyles and more besides were both possible and viable. All of them have been to some degree curtailed so that they no longer work or are much more tedious and/or unreliable.

So as one of the developers who has been making a lot of player visible changes in the vehicle code, can I ask you to specify what about Mad Max car-building that has become so much more unreliable?

Since I started playing about 4 years ago in early 0.C, the vehicle system has changed in a couple of significant ways:
1. electric motors have been adjusted a couple of times, but the net result is there a wider range of electric motors, from very small to fairly large, and all of them get decent efficiency
2. gasoline and diesel engine sizes have standardized and made to support multiple fuels
3. steam engines and freaking huge gas turbines have been added
4. infinite fuel engines like the vortex engine from blazemod have been simplified and standardized
5. lifting and jacking requirements have been added, but satisfying them is fairly trivial
6. vehicle parts have descriptions of what they do when you install them, making it easier to figure out how to configure your vehicle
7. electrical power generation got reduced, but so did the energy costs of most things - you're no longer burning 250 battery charges/turn just to keep the stereo going.
8. rams have been added to vanilla, and most vehicle parts have gotten decent amounts of armor
9. the way that vehicle speed is calculated has changed substantially, but it's still easy to put together a deathmobile that will travel 15+ tiles/turn and most people don't like driving that fast.  Vehicles don't have nominal top speeds of 3000 mph any more, but if you put a 6,000 HP gas turbine on your racing bike you will go crazy fast enough.
10. boats were mainlined, and vehicles can now be made amphibious and you have a variety of choices in your boat hulls
12. bike racks were added, so you can attach a little scout bike to your deathmobile, drive from town to town in your deathmobile, and have a little scout bike to  scout inside a town.  you can even put bike racks on your scout bike and attach small vehicles to it.  (and your scout bike can be amphibious, if that's your thing)
12. there's a limited autopilot to cut down on the tedium of driving from point to point
13. we've got working prototypes of towline towing and helicopters
14. there's a definite plan for adding vehicles that span multiple z-levels themselves, and allowing ground vehicles to drive up and down ramps
15. various other convenience features (single button powered curtains for your entire vehicle, vehicle heaters, off-road tires, the mechanics profession that starts with a welder and welding goggles) have been added

From my perspective, going Mad Max in CDDA is easier and better than ever, and if for some reason you don't like some of the changes, modding even higher performance vehicles is really easy.

The only things that I really acknowledge as nerfs are:
1. foot pedals no longer produce the equivalent of 15 horse power, so some power generation strategies got busted
2. you can't fix everything with duct tape

Tastes very, but I'll trade those two drawbacks for all that other stuff.

[NullForceOmega]

I know you have all the answers for how we should be maintaining the repository we own, for a game that we like and play far too many hours of to be good for us, that you obviously no longer play in anything resembling its current form. However, I think we will continue to ignore your advice and play the game we're enjoying. As I've said, despite our insistence on adding and improving features and game balance we want to add and improve, the community at large only seems to add more people who want to play what we're making. And, to date, for all I hear (mainly from you and two or three other people in this forum) about how we're ruining everything, nobody seems to want to step up to maintain the much vaunted playstyles of yore. There are several doors and they're all wide open.

I've already pointed this out to you once, and I will not hesitate to continue to do so if you don't get the point.

TONE DOWN THE GODDAMN PASSIVE-AGRESSIVE SHIT.

This shit is WHY there are people here who act so fucking disgruntled and you bringing it to this forum will make things WORSE.

There is no cause for it, you don't have to respond to FD or anyone else being negative, and doing so makes YOU into the target for their ire.

edit:  If the point of having a new thread is to help divorce the new iteration from the old then you should be doing everything in your power to avoid making the people who were ostracized feel any angrier, you should either address their issues in a positive way or just not engage them.

[Sindain]

Ptw