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[Splint]

Okay, sure, but when you need diggers (as you would because I imagine most won't be moving into an old dwarf fort,) ghouls are presently the more time-efficient option. Frankly, I'm beginning to miss the old zombie minion. They were perfect for the task because you could pump out a truckload to do all the digging while your actually useful dudes were tasked with more important work and if you didn't need them anymore, or as many, you could just round up the spares and chuck them at something you didn't like ahead of your soldiers.

[Meph]

Okay, sure, but when you need diggers (as you would because I imagine most won't be moving into an old dwarf fort,) ghouls are presently the more time-efficient option. Frankly, I'm beginning to miss the old zombie minion. They were perfect for the task because you could pump out a truckload to do all the digging while your actually useful dudes were tasked with more important work and if you didn't need them anymore, or as many, you could just round up the spares and chuck them at something you didn't like ahead of your soldiers.

I am thinking about a super-weak kinda-free imp. Dungeon keeper style.

[Meph]

Alchemist - Potion reactions done.

They are regular alcoholic drinks; but with a positive effect. Since they cost the same as regular drinks (a plant you grew), the hope is that people will use these special warlock potions instead of drinks.



Death cap mushroom: No fear
Fly agaric mushroom: No pain
Sulfur tuft mushroom: 25% speed increase
Satan's bolete mushroom: Paralyze Immunity
Jack o langern mushroom: No Sleep
Impertor tolosus mushroom: No Eat
Mycena rosea mushroom: No Nausea/Dizziness
Yellow staghorn mushroom: No Exertion
Stinking dapperling mushroom: No Breathe (can't drown)
False chanterelle mushroom: 10% damage resist

[FantasticDorf]

Okay, sure, but when you need diggers (as you would because I imagine most won't be moving into an old dwarf fort,) ghouls are presently the more time-efficient option. Frankly, I'm beginning to miss the old zombie minion. They were perfect for the task because you could pump out a truckload to do all the digging while your actually useful dudes were tasked with more important work and if you didn't need them anymore, or as many, you could just round up the spares and chuck them at something you didn't like ahead of your soldiers.

I am thinking about a super-weak kinda-free imp. Dungeon keeper style.

Remember that the imp requires to be big enough to handle the pickaxe's size restriction. Its also a bit cheesy when the free labor becomes a bit generic, crossing also into the territory of demon worship (does that fit warlock activities? Its evil but i wouldnt know) given we already have ghouls and skeletons with unfilled caste and transformations we could still apply to them to improve skills.

HFS are too [CRAZED] (will literally kill everything if it is not directly HFS or a caste of itself) to do anything worthwhile even though i think Rumrusher had a way to slip them in too. Could we settle for single costed input reaction (a soul) for multiple imps? (and besides, don't HFS have their own little masterwork niche from the original races planned out graphic?)

• Ghoul Miner/Sapper variant- blinded but retains [EXTRA_SIGHT] or can detect other sentient creatures, some text and clawing attacks from the exposed finger bone tips sharpened from cutting their way through soil and rock (not of course applicable with a pickaxe, just for flavour) improved mining capability. Only dwarf ghouls could obtain this?

Just bandying around ways to improve, short of loading up the scriptorum mod to just slap some levels onto them, since i think summoning imps to help the "help" the warlocks have summoned already just because they aren't as efficient as players would like does sound a bit silly or that ghouls and skeletons are in need of a change/buff.

Alchemist - Potion reactions done.

They are regular alcoholic drinks; but with a positive effect. Since they cost the same as regular drinks (a plant you grew), the hope is that people will use these special warlock potions instead of drinks.

I can't force them to take a flagon of the potion (given death cap already risks poisoning guests more than regular alcohol), but this would be really exceptional in adventure-mode, would there be a way to provide these seperate (with or without dfhack) as a generic modification, along with a adventure mode reaction to mix them yourself at a workshop?

[Splint]

I'm very tired, so I'm gonna cave man speak the problem as I personally see it.

Need labor now
No have labor, none coming either (hermit did indeed cut off absolutely everything btw)
Build easiest altar to make labor
Make ghouls, because dirt cheap and only option
But ghouls cost souls
Skeletons are better and also cost souls
But need labor now, and bone altar takes even longer to build
So make ghouls

The current fort I've actually held off on making more ghouls even though I need dudes to do everything because while I'm still short-handed, skeletons sound like a flat out better option, and I don't exactly have an infinite supply of prisoners. Cave beasts are going unbutchered because by piddling 16 dudes is insufficient to get what I need done, done.

I'm into the second year now, and only just getting to making the next level of altar to make skeletons, because of all the other crap that needs to be done and my digging things out in a way that is actually worth looking at instead of just doing the most boring utilitarian thing possible.

I dunno how else to put it right now. The problem is time and cost. The boulders are a bad solution, because it encourages wasting souls on ghouls that could be better spent on skeletons because you're hard-pressed for labor and they're the fastest, cheapest option available.

[Meph]

The hermit script shouldn't block Titans, ambushes, thieves, snatchers or sieges... Only migrants and caravans.

[FantasticDorf]

The hermit script shouldn't block Titans, ambushes, thieves, snatchers or sieges... Only migrants and caravans.

Well it hasn't stopped my monster-slayer (a warlock decked in bloodsteel with a maul) arriving on cue so maybe write visitors off that list, but on the other hand it seems to be working in the second edition versus the first. No migrants, no caravans (though its a bit soon before winter to really tell).

I dunno how else to put it right now. The problem is time and cost. The boulders are a bad solution, because it encourages wasting souls on ghouls that could be better spent on skeletons because you're hard-pressed for labor and they're the fastest, cheapest option available.

I understand but if you made your warlocks too light on labours the minions can't pick up the slack that well except en-masse (normally i put them to mass digging work, mass smoothing or constant combat training). Warlocks should always be core workers at the start. Try hiring migrants from the cultural exchange? (and put your death-cap potions away before someone gets killed)

One last question, will cooking death caps potions into meals kill people? Or any of the Alchemist drinks @Meph as it's probably the preferred way of applying it, replacing all of your meals with buff giving alcohol.

[Meph]

Warlocks, ghouls and corrupted units get buffs, everyone else just falls unconscious. No one does from it.

I think once I added more actual necromancy and you got all kinds of opposed to life units running around, the problem of visitors will solve itself.

None of the reaction or building prices are final btw, I have yet to see it all in motion together.

[Splint]

The hermit script shouldn't block Titans, ambushes, thieves, snatchers or sieges... Only migrants and caravans.

I was referring to the migrants and caravans. Even the hardcoded ones didn't show, so I was stuck with whatever I could make, which  really isn't a whole lot for what I need.

I understand but if you made your warlocks too light on labours the minions can't pick up the slack that well except en-masse (normally i put them to mass digging work, mass smoothing or constant combat training). Warlocks should always be core workers at the start. Try hiring migrants from the cultural exchange? (and put your death-cap potions away before someone gets killed)

Clearly I'm bad at getting my point across - there's more stuff that needs doing than people to do it, it's not a matter of skills, it's a matter of numbers and the quickest to deploy dudes are a bit expensive for the role they're needed for (that role being just a straight digging/hauling detail so the warlocks can handle the more important stuff.)

I have 4 ghouls helping the overlord smooth and haul stuff, smooth out the living chambers, and kill the occasional olm or toad that gets too close for comfort, 4 helping the lead miner, and one making fuel, since there's no coal to be had where I embarked and I'm not digging all the way down to the magma sea with the relatively small crew I currently have; that'd be a nightmare trip in terms of hauling ores down there. Everyone else is running around trying to do everything else, and perfectly good meat going to waste because nobody has the time to butcher the carcasses tells me I don't have enough dudes.

Just as a fun little aside, I forgot I wasn't playing masterwork when I found a ton of cobaltite. When I remembered I wasn't I got very sad very quickly. Now I have a bunch of blue rocks and I have no clue what to do with them. Maybe cobaltite (and cinnabar alongside it) could be used for some specific roles or as a potion ingredient?

[Meph]

I just added 5 embark profiles for different types of play, anything from regular embark; prisoner farming; poisons/potions; military and construction.

Edit: ok... So my plan would be to clean everything up I have so far, add raising corpses, playtest a bit, then upload a first "official" version for bay12 and Reddit to test.

Then I just wait for feedback while either doing goblins or elves in the mean time.

[brolol.404]

I just added 5 embark profiles for different types of play, anything from regular embark; prisoner farming; poisons/potions; military and construction.

Edit: ok... So my plan would be to clean everything up I have so far, add raising corpses, playtest a bit, then upload a first "official" version for bay12 and Reddit to test.

Then I just wait for feedback while either doing goblins or elves in the mean time.

How do you plan to make elves grow their wood? Sounds like an interesting concept lol

[Meph]

Farms? ^^

[brolol.404]

Farms? ^^

Would each farm tile grow a tree? How long would they take to grow and would they then have "grown wood" and "seeds" as a harvest able? Actually then it would be like you killed and replanted the tree which elves would frown on. Could do a "growing wood tree" workshop lol

[Meph]

I don't plan on them planting trees.

I'd make them plant a chair. Or a bed.

Make an inedible plant + seed named "grown X bed", plant it in the farm plot, harvest, have an automatic reaction that turns it into a furniture piece.

Yes, they would need some kind of workshop to create the seed first, but it's nice putting a timer on the objects. GROWDUR:300 for an oak sword; GROWDUR:1000 for a ironbark sword; etc. They would plant it, grow the item they want, and just pick it up. No tree killed. You could even trade it with elves, because it's not real wood. ^^

[FantasticDorf]

I don't plan on them planting trees.

I'd make them plant a chair. Or a bed.

Make an inedible plant + seed named "grown X bed", plant it in the farm plot, harvest, have an automatic reaction that turns it into a furniture piece.

Yes, they would need some kind of workshop to create the seed first, but it's nice putting a timer on the objects. GROWDUR:300 for an oak sword; GROWDUR:1000 for a ironbark sword; etc. They would plant it, grow the item they want, and just pick it up. No tree killed. You could even trade it with elves, because it's not real wood. ^^

That's not too far detracted from what i had planned for vanilla with my elf-alchemy stuff, as to make a literal harvestable crafting tree pod that splits up into candy-like plant wafers used to make furniture or clothes with a liberal sprinkling of the sapling DFhack self deconstructing workshop (should a script procure or I learn the scripting to make a attempt) that was discussed with roses here.

• I would have grown the wafer plants eventually on the farm if I couldn't access the other method, or just embarked onto the right places with the good biome crafting trees/waited for caravans.

Also a side note, elves don't object to the woodcutting profession, just actually felling a tree lands them a potentially life wrecking memory with guilt from my little few elf test forts.

• Will tree planting come to the other masterwork races like just by a generic means to gather fruit, wood & (olive) oil?