NotesI don't feel like it's time for me to analyse recent behaviour or respond in depth to anything other questions, seeing as it's nearing the end of the day and I would like to have some proper cases. So I've been rereading the thread with a lynch in mind.
Briefly: I'm a little surprised by Pooka's reaction to me mentioning their analysis, though I approve of them scrutinizing people's behaviour. This also reminded me that I never asked Pooka a proper question today, which is more lax/scummy of me imho, and might be part of what produced their idea that I'm buddying them, though they haven't made that explicit.
ReadslistNaturegirl1999 - new/bad play, becoming more helpful, slight town vibe but largely null/new read
Superdorf - scum vibe due to certain shifts in behaviour and being a little too on my side, also odd, very slightly non-sequitur questions. Some of this attributable to new players being present and wanting to metagame to give them an easier time of it. Not all of it.
NJW2000 - clear town, only an idiot would think this guy was scum, jeez, also he's very handsome, you can tell from his posts.
Pooka - very uncertain. Not so much ambivalence as a lack of opinion here: the main thing that's stood out to me in his posts was the suggestion that I'd been buddying him, which suggests I really haven't thought much about his play. Resolve to watch/pressure more closely in future.
IonMatrix - dubious play, becoming less present, slight scum vibes due to certain posts that come across as not just wrong play but wrong motivation
4maskwolf - Town vibe. Has given explanations for all their behaviour that make sense and largely excuse it, seems to be pushing as town well. Not happy about this read, as 4mask is a very strong/experienced player, so I suspect I wouldn't be very likely to pick up on it if they were scum. Perhaps I'll feel a bit better once I can apply mechanical analysis to them.
Persus13 - Another player that is a lot stronger than me, so I'm not sure I'd be able to get a scumread on them. I've feeling like I can't really read Persus this game. Possibly just because he's not been posting as much as say 4mask. Need more information.
Note that reads are not the same as ideas for who to lynch, to me. To me, reads are guesses about alignment. But one might want to lynch someone for reasons other than suspected/known alignment. I think of cases as potentially involving these reasons. Being cases-for lynching someone, rather than cases-that someone is scum.
I can explain why I think these with examples, and would be happy to in any particular case. I am however just posting what I'm feeling/thinking after rereading the whole thread, it would take forever to explain
all of these, I don't wanna do that.
Cases
Annoyingly obvious cases against newer, weaker players:
Naturegirl: Multiple instances of bandwagoning I'm not going to quote because every is tediously familiar with them by now. Early refusal to scumhunt. Some general failure to do so without steady pushing. All this is bad for town whether it's done by town or scum, and indicates a player we don't really want in the game. So fairly strong case that we should lynch naturegirl.
IonMatrix: See above, minus bandwagoning, plus a doublepost
here that really gives a "I don't care about finding the scum" vibe. Also, has been posting less content and becoming less helpful as time went on. I'd say that there's a stronger case for lynching IonMatrix over naturegirl. I think someone who thought noob-bandwagoning was a stronger scumtell might see it as being the other way round, but that's my two cents.
A more interesting case:Superdorf: (who I was already voting, but I want to make it explicit that I'm interested in lynching them)
I'm not entirely sure how to express myself here, but there's something that just... off about some of the ways Superdorf has responded, like they're not really engaging with the actual content of the posts. For example, he'll respond by talking about what the post is talking about, but not precisely to the question. Or he'll interpret a remark in what I'd call the "least charitable" way - least charitable in terms of how much sense the phrase meant or how logical it was under that interpretation, not in terms of actual personal
caritas!. This is all suggestive of someone being active but
not really reading other people's posts.
In general, I'm starting to find the lack of questions or scumhunting on me a little irritating and demotivating. I'm putting a lot of effort in to push lots of different people here, noone's pushing at me back really. Makes me a little suspicious of the stronger players, who should be considering everyone.
Re-read that post of Pooka's!
NJW2000 seems to be slightly "buddying up" to me by mentioning my analysis. He's also been pushing Naturegirl to do better. This post may be worth looking at if he or Naturegirl flips, specifically because he didn't give her any room for slack and immediately went on her post saying nothing jumped at her as scum. Other than those two points, I don't really have a solid case against him. Any townie could repeatedly bring up my analysis.
If Naturegirl is scum, I'd like to think it follows that NJW is probably scum who saw the opportunity to bus her and earn town points for it, implied in the post I linked, and so he would be a distant third for me.
You've been accused of:
- buddying Pooka
- and... coaching Naturegirl?
Weird. Nevertheless those are both things you can (and probably should) respond to!
Here, as I pointed out before, he didn't really look at the precise content of why Pooka found my behaviour suspicious (i.e. the post Pooka linked).
As for the others, let's see... Persus I find him to be giving me a townie vibe. He's generally helpful and of what he said so far, I agree with him. NJW2000 seems to be slightly "buddying up" to me by mentioning my analysis. He's also been pushing Naturegirl to do better. This post may be worth looking at if he or Naturegirl flips, specifically because he didn't give her any room for slack and immediately went on her post saying nothing jumped at her as scum. Other than those two points, I don't really have a solid case against him. Any townie could repeatedly bring up my analysis.
Oh yes, that leaves Superdorf. Again, nothing wrong about him from my eyes.
This is strange to me. I was totally trying to coach Naturegirl into better town-play! IonMatrix too! Is that scummy of me? If so, why didn't you poke me for it? If not, how come it is when NJW does it?
Similar thing going on here. Pooka did specifically say why he found my coaching suspicious. Superdorf seems to be missing nuance, setting the conversation back half a response's worth of content or so.
NJW seems to indecisive about who he wants to scumhunt and has gone primarily for the new players without being super honest about both those facts. Both of those things I find slightly scummy, although its mitigated slightly by his mathematician mindset and his concern that folks haven't been poking at him more.
Now this is interesting! I had a townread on NJW meself, just 'cause he was asking nice strong questions early in the Day... but then, I believed the same thing of Nirur Torir in my first game, and hoo boy was I ever wrong there.
Why is mathematical thinking a towntell?
This is probably an example of the "least charitable interpreation" thing I mentioned earlier. It would be very strange for mathematical thinking, or claiming to be thinking mathematically to be a towntell in itself: it seems much more likely that Persus's
read was mitigated.
While I can't approve of engaging in analysis based on two people being scum, given the multitude of possible twosomes, it does look a lot like I made a post Superdorf very much wanted someone to make here, criticising 4mask and giving my own take on Naturegirl's bandwagon behaviour. Suppose Naturegirl and Superdorf are scum: it's clearly preferable for Superdorf to act as if 4mask is scummy than to keep voting Naturegirl.
Oh I should clarify... that "Wonderful" was in reference to IcyTea's clarification of the extension-vote rules. I got ninja'd, and didn't think to quote the post properly...
But yes, I was happy to see your post. I was happy to see your post because it gave me a new position to think about.
This one is perhaps more dubious, as of course I'm going to see my posts as communicating perfectly when in fact they're very likely to me misinterpreted due to poor writing. Nevertheless: here, I suggest that my post would have been one that benefited superdorf and explain why I think that. Superdorf responds by talking about what his "wonderful" was about, as if I might suspect a mafioso of giving way to involuntary ebullience
in text form, and then adresses the fact that he was happy.
I didn't mean that he seemed happy. I meant that it looked like the post under discussion furthered his interests, from his behaviour. I explained why I thought this.
He does not respond at all to my suggestion, as part of a wider interpretation of his behaviour, that the post fitted his interests as scum.
This is the dubious thing: It's as if he didn't consider this idea at all, as if he only looked at the word "happy" and went from there, meaning he made a response and looked like someone participating in the town process.
Might be going down a rabbit hole here, miscommunication does happen, but I suspect I can hunt up more examples.
Furthermore, Superdorf did spin on a dime
at one point, and while he explained his thought processes after
I pressed him, I still find it suspicious.
Finally, and this is a bit underdeveloped so I'd prefer to let it play out more but the day's ending, Superdorf does seem a bit too friendly towards me. He's been acting as a bit of a bit of a buffer between me and Pooka over the last page or two, turning Pooka's reads on me into questions I can answer, questioning Pooka's attack on me... I'm not sure specifically why Super would do this as scum, but I can imagine reasons scum would want to, and no good reason for town to behave that way.
Superdorf did also massively swing round to my way of seeing things, or what he seems to think my way of seeing things was, in
this post which I've
already remarked upon.
All in all, one could consider this "Pocketing", to use a delightful term pooka just provided.
Afterthoughts: I do seem, to a certain extent, to have singled out the weaker players for lynching, perhaps excepting Superdorf. This is a pity, but perhaps unsurprising for D1. Furthermore, I think stronger players would be less likely to be lynched as scum d1, as they'll be very experienced at acting townie, while newer players would be more likely to give themselves away, so lynching the scummiest weak player might be ok on D1.
Also not sure if my case on Sup will have time to be discussed now. If we don't have time for it, I'm ok with an Ionmatrix lynch.
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Topic: Vanilla Tea Mafia: TOWN VICTORY (Read 56515 times)