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[Pooka]

I'm a little hungry right now, so I won't say much here. Also, I do have a job test on Monday, and a couple other distractions that will take place. Heck, I forgot about the game, until I remembered it just now and thought the Day was almost over. Anyway.

I see talk of Naturegirl being coached (or the lack thereof), but it's still Day 1. Is the scum chat ALWAYS available during the day? Back on GOG, that happened during one game, it was slightly bigger than this game but it still had two scum. Otherwise, it's Night only. Anyways, Naturegirl has me conflicted. She exhibits the behavior of a flailing newbie town, of which I'm giving the benefit of the doubt. On the other hand, yes, Naturegirl can be scummy and still play the way she does as a form of WIFOM.

But, here's my concern with Naturegirl being scum. Does her play really make sense from a scum perspective? From my eyes, she has attracted way too much attention to herself, by being on a bandwagon twice, and quickly earning this reputation of unhelpful town. While her second bandwagon vote on Persus doesn't help matters (since I and someone else told her not to just vote because someone else did), I can see why she did it: with the deadline looming and there being a tie, voting on Persus sets the vote to him. He was basically getting the "policy lynch."

Yes, she makes it hard to be on her side, but when I look at like I do, it seems not that likely that she is scum.

I'll get to the posts directed at me later.

[Naturegirl1999]

Ah! Thank you! I'd not thought to ask myself... and come to think of it, maybe I should expect her to be more coordinated if she's in a scumchat, not less.

And knowing this, a canny scumbuddy would let her act uncoordinatedly, or even orchestrate flailing to make her seem natural and waste town time.
And knowing I'd say that, a very canny scumbuddy would stop her acting in such a flaily manner, and...

In other worlds, welcome to the wonderful world of WIFOM. I suspect that thinking about whether someone's recieving guidance won't get one very far.

Mm, fair enough. I need to get a hold again of the logic patterns this game involves... it's been a few months; I'm off my game!
Also, cool that we can stick alt-text on stuff like this! I didn't know that was a thing.

Ok, after reading through what happened recently, something else stood out to me as quite bizarre. Superdorf's behaviour.

After my post here, Superdorf seemed to swing round to my point of view entirely. Or much further in fact: I think that a real case hasn't been made for Naturegirl's lynching, as no real cases have been made, not that she's town. I would say Naturegirl has, overall, been one of the scummiest-looking players this game, though her vote on Persus apparently stood out more to other people than to me. I think that was fairly clear in my initial response. Superdorf here seems to be acting on the hypothesis that she's town. Or talking on that assumption?

I'm... kinda just asking a lot of "what-ifs" right now? I'm not sure what's what yet, so I keep second-guessing myself... but I want answers, so I make a lot of noise anyway. It's a strange combination. I'm not sure yet if it's working or no.

I'm not sure what to make of "now we're thinking".

It's a very odd choice of words. Is there a "we" in mafia? Are cases built and opinions held collectively, rather than individually or corraboratively? I think not. And yet superdorf seems very happy to swing into the idea that the default position is that of thinking of Naturegirl as confused town. If anything, I'm getting the impression that the default read on Naturegirl is scum/sk/deeply unhelpful town, and that's still the read I have, despite my recent encouragement of her actual engagement with the scumhunting process. Someone talking from what you might call the general perspective isn't somehing I trust.

Oh. Oh yes! I should not be saying "we". Why am I saying "we"? I will stop saying "we".

Wonderful!
Unvote
Extend
Also, I feel like I want to change my mind on a bunch of stuff really really fast. Is that a bad thing?

This sudden swing is very unusual coming from an experienced player in this position. I'll explain why.

Ah, thank you! I will keep this in mind.

Sudden swings from strong players aren't too unusual. 4Mask exhibited one with his vote on Naturegirl here, and while I dislike the fact that he simply posted one line rather than a case describing Naturegirl's behaviour through the game and why it is scummy, his play certainly makes sense. So does superdorf's vote on Naturegirl that came immediately after, which at least gives some kind of reasoning. The key thing here however is that the votes changed because something occurred: Naturegirl's vote on Persus.

But nothing happened between Superdorf voting Naturegirl and Superdorf unvoting, (unless you count Superdorf finding out you can vote and extend simultaneously, which shouldn't really change where their vote and suspicions lie.) This makes the sudden turnaround seem very dubious to me.

I second-guessed myself. Now I'm re-second-guessing myself. I accept that this makes me look bad, and I'm gonna do it anyway because I'm trying to chase down everybody at once with 3 days' worth of posting and I'm not really aware of a better way to do it.

While I can't approve of engaging in analysis based on two people being scum, given the multitude of possible twosomes, it does look a lot like I made a post Superdorf very much wanted someone to make here, criticising 4mask and giving my own take on Naturegirl's bandwagon behaviour. Suppose Naturegirl and Superdorf are scum: it's clearly preferable for Superdorf to act as if 4mask is scummy than to keep voting Naturegirl.

Oh I should clarify... that "Wonderful" was in reference to IcyTea's clarification of the extension-vote rules. I got ninja'd, and didn't think to quote the post properly...
But yes, I was happy to see your post. I was happy to see your post because it gave me a new position to think about.

Leaving Naturegirl's alignment aside, I still find these instant turnarounds, apparently only on the basis of someone else's opinion, essentially similar to the bandwagons that have occurred depressingly frequently this game. In fact, this instant shift in vote is somewhat more suspicious coming from a player who has played enough to be able to form their own opinions and vote for their own suspects.

You overestimate me... but yeah, that's fair. I gotta stop sheeping people like this. It's lazy, and it just drags me in circles. I've done this before; it's a unfortunate habit of mine as town. I'm trying to kick it.

Superdorf: Why exactly did your opinion of Naturegirl and 4mask change so rapidly that you went from voting Naturegirl for the lynch to not even pressuring her, and from pursuing a lynch 4mask started to considering 4mask as a member of the scumteam?

'Cos I keep suddenly asking myself "What if this player is scum instead of this one?", and restructuring all my opinions to match. I'm jumping from track to track, trying to chase after all the things all at once... and it's not working is it?

Well. Maybe. I do still think IonMatrix is pulling some seriously strange shenanigans. No regrets there.
Naturegirl1999: I'm curious where you stand at the moment, so I'm gonna ask you the same question I asked IonMatrix last night: if you had to lynch somebody right now, who would it be? Why?
Pooka: Care to weigh in on this recent kerfuffling?

I’m thinking Ionmatrix, I looked at his posts and found that there were very few questions

[4maskwolf]

Greet.  I return.

Something I noticed on the way in I wanted to provide an anectdote on: Pooka, I have seen newbie scum do a lot of obvious scummy things before because they don't realize what it is they shouldn't do.  A good example is Paranormal... which one was it... 25, where newbie scum RattyB accidentally outed one of his scumbuddies, TheBiggerFish, during the day phase and, with the town able to use process of elimination from there, basically ensured the defeat of the scumteam.

Spoiler: Too many details on what happened (click to show/hide)

RattyB had been caught by a town information power role and was trying to weasel his way out of a situation that was way, way above his head, and even the most veteran players would have had trouble weaseling their way out of that one.  At one point during the day discussion, he directly addressed TheBiggerFish, in game chat, asking for support (to the town, TBF had been wavering on the lynch but wasn't clearly supporting RattyB either, if memory serves), and during the night phase a townie noticed the downright bizzare behavior and brought it to the attention of the rest of the players the next day.  Sure enough, RattyB had been asking for help in the wrong place, more or less, and accidentally outed his scumbuddy.

NJW: I promised you a response, and a response you shall receive.

And the answer to that question, NJW, is two-fold.  One: extensions without actual thread activity, in almost all circumstances, are harmful to game health and do not provide a meaningful advantage to the town.  One or two extra days of no activity give you basically nothing but drag out the game longer and can have a negative impact on player morale in general.  Two: with this in mind, extension or not I see no sign of Persus participating and yes, lacking anything else I would have preferred no extension and a lurker lynch.  However, with activity having picked up a bit this evening and someone catching my attention, extend.

Interesting. So you don't think there's been actual thread activity each day? I believe the game's been a bit sparse, but I wouldn't really agree with you there, I think we've made progress each day. I can't actually argue with your meta-game experience regarding extensions, but I still find the rather rushed vote on persus a bit dubious.

So do we get to know who caught your attention, or is this like your strong inclination to believe that there's a cop?
(I'm assuming it's not Naturegirl, as you were perfectly happy to let the clock run out with the deciding vote on her, justified by a one-line analysis)

Your idea of a "rushed vote on Persus" was rather flawed.  There were more than 12 hours left in the day as of the time of my vote (unless I'm getting the times wrong somehow) and I was going to wake up before day end due to my opening shift to read the posts.  However, at the rate things were going I didn't think anything more noteworthy would pop up during the day.  And frankly I'm still not super convinced of it, last night the thread seemed to pick up the pace a bit but then nothing happened again.

And you do get to know who the person is, yes.  You already knew it the whole time, you just didn't believe it.  I do find naturegirl's bandwagoning scummy, and that's what caught my attention.  Sorry to disappoint if you were expecting something more.

[Persus13]

I'm pretty busy today, so no readslist, but here's some responses to people.

Superdorf:

Superdorf:

It's possible we're just looking at new-player flailing, but I'm increasingly inclined to believe she's mafia, and doesn't know what to do or who to accuse because she already knows who's who. She said it herself at the start of the Day: all she wants is her own survival.

Do you think she's getting advice form a teammate in a private chat?

Ah! Thank you! I'd not thought to ask myself... and come to think of it, maybe I should expect her to be more coordinated if she's in a scumchat, not less.

To be fair, she could be listening to her teammate as much as she's listening to people in this thread. Or her teammate isn't giving her much advice.

NJW:

    Two: with this in mind, extension or not I see no sign of Persus participating and yes, lacking anything else I would have preferred no extension and a lurker lynch.  However, with activity having picked up a bit this evening and someone catching my attention, extend.

This on the other hand is BS.

I didn't understand which bit is "BS". The extension? The preference for a lurker lynch? The assessment of your activity?
Not a scumhunting point, but I'd like to know for mafia understanding generally.

Sorry if that was confusing, I had hoped to avoid that by editing, but I seem to have failed. I considered his prediction of my lack of participation going forward BS. Especially since I had not disappeared before in this game, and its hard to participate at all when dead.

Also for the record, this is the third game I've played with Superdorf, and I don't believe he's played much outside of those.

Pooka:

I see talk of Naturegirl being coached (or the lack thereof), but it's still Day 1. Is the scum chat ALWAYS available during the day? Back on GOG, that happened during one game, it was slightly bigger than this game but it still had two scum. Otherwise, it's Night only. Anyways, Naturegirl has me conflicted. She exhibits the behavior of a flailing newbie town, of which I'm giving the benefit of the doubt. On the other hand, yes, Naturegirl can be scummy and still play the way she does as a form of WIFOM.

Generally here we use Quicktopics for private chats and you can post on them whenever.

[Superdorf]

Greet.  I return.

Something I noticed on the way in I wanted to provide an anectdote on: Pooka, I have seen newbie scum do a lot of obvious scummy things before because they don't realize what it is they shouldn't do.  A good example is Paranormal... which one was it... 25, where newbie scum RattyB accidentally outed one of his scumbuddies, TheBiggerFish, during the day phase and, with the town able to use process of elimination from there, basically ensured the defeat of the scumteam.

Huh. That is... useful. I'm more willing now to dismiss the scumchat speculation from before as WIFOM, seeing as it could go either way just as easily.

To be fair, she could be listening to her teammate as much as she's listening to people in this thread. Or her teammate isn't giving her much advice.

As above. Thanks y'all!

Sorry if that was confusing, I had hoped to avoid that by editing, but I seem to have failed. I considered his prediction of my lack of participation going forward BS. Especially since I had not disappeared before in this game, and its hard to participate at all when dead.

Er, just to clarify... are you expecting to be lynched/nightkilled soon, or are you just referring to 4maskwolf's intent to lynch you?

Also for the record, this is the third game I've played with Superdorf, and I don't believe he's played much outside of those.

Indeed! I, uh, talk a lot more confident than I feel.

[4maskwolf]

NJW:

    Two: with this in mind, extension or not I see no sign of Persus participating and yes, lacking anything else I would have preferred no extension and a lurker lynch.  However, with activity having picked up a bit this evening and someone catching my attention, extend.

This on the other hand is BS.

I didn't understand which bit is "BS". The extension? The preference for a lurker lynch? The assessment of your activity?
Not a scumhunting point, but I'd like to know for mafia understanding generally.

Sorry if that was confusing, I had hoped to avoid that by editing, but I seem to have failed. I considered his prediction of my lack of participation going forward BS. Especially since I had not disappeared before in this game, and its hard to participate at all when dead.

Also for the record, this is the third game I've played with Superdorf, and I don't believe he's played much outside of those.

I've seen a lot of people, especially veterans, shadow-drop games when life stuff comes up or they lose interest. I'm not sure I've ever seen you do it, personally, but I've seen it happen (and been that guy before, much as it shames me to admit it).

Were you the one who asked me why you and not Pooka?  Well, whoever it was, I'm going to answer that question here because I just remembered it.  And the answer is: because I noticed your absence and didn't notice Pooka's.  I'm definitely guilty this game of paying more attention to veterans than new players, if not in who I actually talk to then in whose posts I am paying the most careful attention to.  Thus, you absence stood out to me while Pooka's didn't.

[Superdorf]

Mm, Pooka: It seems you are against a Naturegirl lynch-- who, then, is most suspicious in your eyes at this time?

[NJW2000]

Is the scum chat ALWAYS available during the day?

I think in bay12, we ask for clarification from the mod in orange.

I would also like this checked, though I think scum chats are always available during the day on bay12, or at least have been in all the games I've read and participated in. As far as I can remember.

Explanation of thinking behind vote switch

Ugh... very tired, writing this bit last. Looks like solid account of Supe's thought process, not fully convinced, need to analyse more later I think. Too tired now, shouldn't have left this part so late.

-SNIPPED-

So do we get to know who caught your attention, or is this like your strong inclination to believe that there's a cop?
(I'm assuming it's not Naturegirl, as you were perfectly happy to let the clock run out with the deciding vote on her, justified by a one-line analysis)

Your idea of a "rushed vote on Persus" was rather flawed.  There were more than 12 hours left in the day as of the time of my vote (unless I'm getting the times wrong somehow) and I was going to wake up before day end due to my opening shift to read the posts.  However, at the rate things were going I didn't think anything more noteworthy would pop up during the day.  And frankly I'm still not super convinced of it, last night the thread seemed to pick up the pace a bit but then nothing happened again.

And you do get to know who the person is, yes.  You already knew it the whole time, you just didn't believe it.  I do find naturegirl's bandwagoning scummy, and that's what caught my attention.  Sorry to disappoint if you were expecting something more.

Fair enough. I may not have checked times too carefully actually, I just woke up three hours before the end of the day, and nobody had posted for a while. I felt like I'd walked into a ghost town where two people had decided the

I do believe that (if you're town) you find naturegirl's bandwagoning scummy. I mean, unless you're scum, your lynchvote on her wouldn't have made much sense if you hadn't. And there's a lot to find scummy about naturegirl's behavious in general, though you didn't really say that, Superdorf had to do it in the post just after. But that's not why I thought you had someone else in mind. This post is why:

...However, with activity having picked up a bit this evening and someone catching my attention, extend.

Three people had voted for an extension at this point. You're right that activity had picked up here, but how does Naturegirl "catching your attention" make you want to extend the day, given you were happy to simply lynch her in the last twelve hours of d1? It's just confusing: you're dubious of extensions, apparently, and are perfectly happy to lynch naturegirl on the basis of her bandwagon without an extension, but then want an extension because of... naturegirl's bandwagon? That can't be right. Or is activity picking up enough for an extension, even though you think extensions often kill activity? I don't get it.

So now I am expecting something more, 4mask. An explanation. Why did you change your mind about the extension?

[IcyTea31]

Scumchat is available during both the Night and the Day, including the first.

Naturegirl1999: 4maskwolf (1)
IonMatrix: Superdorf (1)
Persus13: Naturegirl1999 (1)
Superdorf: NJW2000 (1)

Not voting: Pooka, IonMatrix, Persus13

Day One ends on 2019-08-26 15:00 UTC.
Extension has been used.
Hammering is available, requiring 5 votes.

[Naturegirl1999]

Ah! Thank you! I'd not thought to ask myself... and come to think of it, maybe I should expect her to be more coordinated if she's in a scumchat, not less.

And knowing this, a canny scumbuddy would let her act uncoordinatedly, or even orchestrate flailing to make her seem natural and waste town time.
And knowing I'd say that, a very canny scumbuddy would stop her acting in such a flaily manner, and...

In other worlds, welcome to the wonderful world of WIFOM. I suspect that thinking about whether someone's recieving guidance won't get one very far.

Mm, fair enough. I need to get a hold again of the logic patterns this game involves... it's been a few months; I'm off my game!
Also, cool that we can stick alt-text on stuff like this! I didn't know that was a thing.

Ok, after reading through what happened recently, something else stood out to me as quite bizarre. Superdorf's behaviour.

After my post here, Superdorf seemed to swing round to my point of view entirely. Or much further in fact: I think that a real case hasn't been made for Naturegirl's lynching, as no real cases have been made, not that she's town. I would say Naturegirl has, overall, been one of the scummiest-looking players this game, though her vote on Persus apparently stood out more to other people than to me. I think that was fairly clear in my initial response. Superdorf here seems to be acting on the hypothesis that she's town. Or talking on that assumption?

I'm... kinda just asking a lot of "what-ifs" right now? I'm not sure what's what yet, so I keep second-guessing myself... but I want answers, so I make a lot of noise anyway. It's a strange combination. I'm not sure yet if it's working or no.

I'm not sure what to make of "now we're thinking".

It's a very odd choice of words. Is there a "we" in mafia? Are cases built and opinions held collectively, rather than individually or corraboratively? I think not. And yet superdorf seems very happy to swing into the idea that the default position is that of thinking of Naturegirl as confused town. If anything, I'm getting the impression that the default read on Naturegirl is scum/sk/deeply unhelpful town, and that's still the read I have, despite my recent encouragement of her actual engagement with the scumhunting process. Someone talking from what you might call the general perspective isn't somehing I trust.

Oh. Oh yes! I should not be saying "we". Why am I saying "we"? I will stop saying "we".

Wonderful!
Unvote
Extend
Also, I feel like I want to change my mind on a bunch of stuff really really fast. Is that a bad thing?

This sudden swing is very unusual coming from an experienced player in this position. I'll explain why.

Ah, thank you! I will keep this in mind.

Sudden swings from strong players aren't too unusual. 4Mask exhibited one with his vote on Naturegirl here, and while I dislike the fact that he simply posted one line rather than a case describing Naturegirl's behaviour through the game and why it is scummy, his play certainly makes sense. So does superdorf's vote on Naturegirl that came immediately after, which at least gives some kind of reasoning. The key thing here however is that the votes changed because something occurred: Naturegirl's vote on Persus.

But nothing happened between Superdorf voting Naturegirl and Superdorf unvoting, (unless you count Superdorf finding out you can vote and extend simultaneously, which shouldn't really change where their vote and suspicions lie.) This makes the sudden turnaround seem very dubious to me.

I second-guessed myself. Now I'm re-second-guessing myself. I accept that this makes me look bad, and I'm gonna do it anyway because I'm trying to chase down everybody at once with 3 days' worth of posting and I'm not really aware of a better way to do it.

While I can't approve of engaging in analysis based on two people being scum, given the multitude of possible twosomes, it does look a lot like I made a post Superdorf very much wanted someone to make here, criticising 4mask and giving my own take on Naturegirl's bandwagon behaviour. Suppose Naturegirl and Superdorf are scum: it's clearly preferable for Superdorf to act as if 4mask is scummy than to keep voting Naturegirl.

Oh I should clarify... that "Wonderful" was in reference to IcyTea's clarification of the extension-vote rules. I got ninja'd, and didn't think to quote the post properly...
But yes, I was happy to see your post. I was happy to see your post because it gave me a new position to think about.

Leaving Naturegirl's alignment aside, I still find these instant turnarounds, apparently only on the basis of someone else's opinion, essentially similar to the bandwagons that have occurred depressingly frequently this game. In fact, this instant shift in vote is somewhat more suspicious coming from a player who has played enough to be able to form their own opinions and vote for their own suspects.

You overestimate me... but yeah, that's fair. I gotta stop sheeping people like this. It's lazy, and it just drags me in circles. I've done this before; it's a unfortunate habit of mine as town. I'm trying to kick it.

Superdorf: Why exactly did your opinion of Naturegirl and 4mask change so rapidly that you went from voting Naturegirl for the lynch to not even pressuring her, and from pursuing a lynch 4mask started to considering 4mask as a member of the scumteam?

'Cos I keep suddenly asking myself "What if this player is scum instead of this one?", and restructuring all my opinions to match. I'm jumping from track to track, trying to chase after all the things all at once... and it's not working is it?

Well. Maybe. I do still think IonMatrix is pulling some seriously strange shenanigans. No regrets there.
Naturegirl1999: I'm curious where you stand at the moment, so I'm gonna ask you the same question I asked IonMatrix last night: if you had to lynch somebody right now, who would it be? Why?
Pooka: Care to weigh in on this recent kerfuffling?

I’m thinking Ionmatrix, I looked at his posts and found that there were very few questions

Ionmatrix for reason above. You seem to have the fewest posts of everyone here.

[Superdorf]

Oof, this day has just been dead dead dead... let's try and breathe a little life back into it, eh?
Naturegirl1999
On the one hand, I do indeed consider IonMatrix to be woefully scummy at the moment... On the other hand... I can't really support it, but I have this uneasy feeling that you're voting him to protect yourself.
You were looking to lynch Persus for inactivity. Now you're looking to lynch IonMatrix for inactivity. You're backing all our policy-lynch suggestions... why?
Pooka

Naturegirl has me conflicted. She exhibits the behavior of a flailing newbie town, of which I'm giving the benefit of the doubt. On the other hand, yes, Naturegirl can be scummy and still play the way she does as a form of WIFOM.

So wait, lemme get this straight. You think that either she's a flailing newbietown... or she's scum pretending to be a flailing newbietown to confuse us? Do I have that right?

But, here's my concern with Naturegirl being scum. Does her play really make sense from a scum perspective? From my eyes, she has attracted way too much attention to herself, by being on a bandwagon twice, and quickly earning this reputation of unhelpful town.

You seem quite willing to accept the possibility of a noobtownie. Why are you so reluctant to consider the possibility of an incompetent mafioso? I call WIFOM.
Also... are you implying that being on a bandwagon twice is unhelpful to town, or that it is most often the action of an unhelpful but legitimate townie? Because the latter is very much debatable.

While her second bandwagon vote on Persus doesn't help matters (since I and someone else told her not to just vote because someone else did), I can see why she did it: with the deadline looming and there being a tie, voting on Persus sets the vote to him. He was basically getting the "policy lynch."

She's now done the same for IonMatrix, and the deadline is no longer "looming" as it was before. Has your position on the matter changed at all as a result?

All in all, your argument for Naturegirl's townieness seems to amount to... "she's noobtown, so she must be town". You're making some strange assumptions, and I'm curious as to why.
IonMatrix: Why so quiet? I attacked you for all I'm worth-- surely that merits at least some kind of reaction?
...Have you given up? Is that it?

Persus13: RL first and all, but just lettin' you know I'm still intensely eager to see that readlist you're cooking up. 
If that's still taking too much time, I'd gladly settle for a couple random hunches... are there any interactions from the past few days you find particularly suspicious?

[IcyTea31]

Naturegirl1999: 4maskwolf (1)
IonMatrix: Superdorf, Naturegirl1999 (2)
Superdorf: NJW2000 (1)

Not voting: Pooka, IonMatrix, Persus13

Day One ends on 2019-08-26 15:00 UTC.
Extension has been used.
Hammering is available, requiring 5 votes.

[Pooka]

Why is it this ridiculously hard to keep updated with the game and to participate regularly in it? Anyway...

Naturegirl, why vote only IonMatrix for having the "fewest posts" but not me, who is in a similar boat anyway?

Superdorf, Naturegirl has me confused in all sorts of ways. I'm tempted to vote her and get her flip, but I'm afraid it would be going for a low-hanging fruit in a game where we probably don't have the chance to afford it (which is why you can say I'm reluctant to have her lynched).

are you implying that being on a bandwagon twice is unhelpful to town, or that it is most often the action of an unhelpful but legitimate townie? Because the latter is very much debatable.

Both actually. Her jumping on a bandwagon after being told twice it was a bad idea is both unhelpful to town...it's also something I can see an unhelpful but legitimate townie do.

Now my assumptions about her being noobtown just stems from the fact that wagon-hopping was something I was guilty of as Town in my first ever game of Mafia. I saw like two people wagon on someone, and me being noob, with the concept that "Day 1 starts with the Random Vote Stage" so alien at the time, I voted as the third on that wagon. Sure, I quickly retracted once people were like "hoo boy this is interesting," but that had me put on the suspicious list for the rest of the game, and the mafia of course capitalized on it. Long story short, I'm giving her a pass because what she's doing reminds me a lot of myself as flailing newbie town.

----
Most suspicious aside of Naturegirl is probably IonMatrix. I suppose Naturegirl has a point about IonMatrix now that I look at the last two pages. He literally did not post after the extension. He was one of the people who thought the Day should be extended in order to find players with scumtells. Where is he now? I mean sure, I'm not all that good with my activity, but at least I tried to participate post-extension...this wholly strikes me as odd. In Page 4 (uhh, posts #150 to #200), he pretty much doesn't do much in the way of scumhunting before the extension thing either. This has me worried.

As for the others, let's see... Persus I find him to be giving me a townie vibe. He's generally helpful and of what he said so far, I agree with him. NJW2000 seems to be slightly "buddying up" to me by mentioning my analysis. He's also been pushing Naturegirl to do better. This post may be worth looking at if he or Naturegirl flips, specifically because he didn't give her any room for slack and immediately went on her post saying nothing jumped at her as scum. Other than those two points, I don't really have a solid case against him. Any townie could repeatedly bring up my analysis.

4maskwolf is in the same boat as Persus, the helpful player who provides anecdotes and examples to what he thinks. Oh yes, that leaves Superdorf. Again, nothing wrong about him from my eyes. Okay, I think that's all the players on the table.

I'm most willing to lynch IonMatrix. If not him, then Naturegirl. I'm not willing to lynch anybody else (unless something saucy happens, which I have yet to see). The way I see it, if Naturegirl isn't scum, then the real scumteam is probably an "all-star" team which has managed to stay hidden in the shadows the whole day, and found in Naturegirl a lightning rod that simply cannot be ignored. If Naturegirl is scum, I'd like to think it follows that NJW is probably scum who saw the opportunity to bus her and earn town points for it, implied in the post I linked, and so he would be a distant third for me.

According to the vote tally, Ion's in the lead, and by voting him, I get him to L-1, so I won't vote him...actually he gets brought up to L-2 because the majority is five votes and not four like I thought. Still, he's already got enough pressure as he is right now.

[Pooka]

Also, how the heck do you do ISOs on Bay12? I tried figuring out something, but nothing worked decently...

[Naturegirl1999]

@Pooka
You seem to have done more posts than Ionmatrix, asking questions of others a bit more often